I must point out at this point, I do not encourage anyone to watch the show anymore, but the Abbott family's show aired next up after ours, and we watched it for the last time as a family, so that we could point out to our children (Jack, 11 and Lucy, 8 ) examples of editing and try and help them make sense of why our excitement had turned to humiliation and grief.

You see, contrary to the dramatic theme of the show, our memory of our time Trading was wonderfully positive. It was inspiring. That part of this experience I would be willing to do again in a heartbeat. I really cared for the Loupe family and felt cared for by them. They were excellent hosts. They were good, kind, open - minded people and I was enchanted by Louisiana and their home. So much of what America saw I just don't "remember," and I've got a great memory

With this post (my very first ever) I wanted to THANK the ABBOTTS for their courage, honesty, and friendship. Finding Leslie, Carl, and the boys was a Godsend to me. Before that, no one else truly understood the depth of my pain and trauma. They have helped me to heal. No one should have to endure such public - national - humiliation. I wouldn't have wished it on my worst enemy, even if she was a hunting, dog breeding, circus animal training carnivore!!

I am glad to see that you are recovering from that editing. Originally after watching your episodes, I had the same thoughts about you that the majority of the viewers did. The difference is that I wasn't willing to accept everything I watch on TV as gospel. Luke and expecially Kyle have set me straight; I now realize that editing can portray the evilest villain as the nicest person and the nicest person as the evilist villain and/or anything in between. I have read elsewhere that you are planning on getting together with the Loupes again. If this is true and their experience was as bad as it was shown on TV then I am sure they would not have been interested in a reunion. This leads me to believe that there are a number of behind the scenes actions that were never broadcast nor ever intended to be broadcast.

To make a long post shorter, I am happy that the Abbotts actually explained to me in such detail how FOX editing works and I have no doubt that your actions and reactions were edited in such a way that all Americans (and Canadians ops: ) loved to think of you as the villain.

Lastly, I heard that you also do theatre. Is that true?

I was puzzled by why they chose our family, and the others. They could easily find families who they wouldn't need to edit into villains. You know, families, like those on the Jerry Springer show. Such a Trading Spouses show would be dynamite without re-arranging any sound/video bites. Then I realized! They need to have emotionally stable upright mature families who they are certain won't go berserk on them

= = = = = = = AND NOW, HERE'S YOUR CHANCE = = = = = = =

Animal Rights Television Show

Looking for animal rights families/families who are anti-fur.

My name is Melissa Mills. I work in casting at "Trading Spouses," a family-themed reality show that airs on Fox, Monday nights at 8PM. The purpose of our show is to compare and contrast various families across the country while highlighting their unique interests and cultures! For example, we've had everyone from hunters to vegans, alligator wranglers to family bands, tattoo artists to political activists appear on our show.

Currently, we are casting for new episodes and would like to meet families who are in favor of animal rights. We love interesting families who could show the world a little bit about what makes them so special! This is a terrific opportunity for any family who is energetic and who wants to Learn about another way of life. In addition, every family who has appeared on the show has been compensated $50,000! This could be a chance for an animal rights family who wants their voice heard to have an audience of millions of people.

All families who want to be on our show must have the following: at least one child between the ages of 6 & 18, a crime-free background, US citizenship, and an ability to speak English. Also, the spouses must be legally married. Please have a look on our website: www.fox.com for more details.

If you know of anyone who might fit this description, please contact me as soon as possible.

Melissa Mills
Casting Assistant/Trading Spouses
Rocket Science Laboratories

323-802-0619
mmills@rocketsciencelabs.com

I find it ironic that Barbara would post here sympathizing with the Abbotts. Yes, she went on the same reality show, but her parenting style in particular could not be more opposite from Carl & Leslie Abbott's. She seemed most interested in controlling the people in her life, whereas the Abbotts are so open to their children's thoughts and ideas that Carl went barefoot at the boys' suggestion. In contrast, Barbara yelled at her daughter for not understanding a math problem.

And Richard, lighten up you brutish gangster!

Frankly, I only really know my own family with whom I live day in and day out. But even here I notice how each of us sees the others (and indeed ourselves) as reflections of our own nature. More telling is the gullibility with which we believe our perceptions ? these reflections ? as objective reality. We hide this profound gullibility under a veil of 'sophistication and education'. Only in our private moments do we sense that naive and frightened little ape within.

The best I've been able to do is realize and accept my own gullible naivete and, well, just plain ignorance. Yes, I know a lot of folks are thinking, "Ah, finally he's realized it". Facing up to my own naivete makes me increasingly hesitant and reflective and less inclined to believe my lying eyes and ears. Ah, it's taken me 60+ years to 'achieve' what meager sense of this I have. I'm only slowly waking up from the life long dream I believed to be reality.

With regards to the judgements made about Barbara, I'll just quote myself...

Carl:

Many of those who make quick judgements are also likely people who laugh at epileptics or bullied their classmates, and pick on anyone they perceive as exposed and vulnerable. Why do they do this?

I feel that Christ's comment, "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven" shines light on that question. Their unkind judgements are a reflection of the inner anguish they experience. Self hate begets hateful action. A tormented soul acts accordingly, some self destruct while others lash out. A happy soul likewise reflects their inner peace through their thoughts and actions. Another of Christ's observations, "Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit." A tormented tree bears bitter fruit. They are helplessly expressing the anguish they feel through lashing out at us today, and perhaps you tomorrow. Our compassion is all that they deserve, for they are us... and we know not what we do.

I admit to not being perfect - far from it... I'm not asking to be redeemed by Trashing Spouses viewers - or anyone else. I don't need it. I have my family and friend's love and understanding. While this experience has shown me the worst in people, it has also shown me the best in people and it has been inspiring.

I don't need anyone's forgiveness either. I forgive myself for my mistakes. If there is a God, I know he/she forgives me too. What I ask is that viewers consider this one idea: What you saw might not be "reality." Consider, that the number 1 rule to creating "drama" (I know this as a performer and writer) is to create conflict. Consider: You never saw a single hostile "confrontation" between me and anyone I spent time with in LA. There were none. On the contrary, there were long walks in the swamp (breathtakingly beautiful), long talks about the important stuff, and so much laughter with Diana's family - my jaw hurt. Diego is a great guy and ZZ is a spirited, sweet kid. I'll never forget his flowers, his lessons, or his hugs. Diana is a soulful and strong woman who I admire. I want only the best for all of the Loupes (and their animals).

Bottom line: I'm a happy person with love in my heart. My husband and I laugh so much. We even laugh about Trashing Spouses (finally). We are madly in love after 20 years together. Our total love and committment is a reflection of our values and the person I truly am. I am so happy and grateful to say that I respect this husband and father after so many years. He is my best friend. And he loves and respects me too, because hell, I'm really not that bad after all.

My kids are KIND kids who don't have a prejudice or hostile bone in thier body. Everyone who meets them comments on their friendliness, their intelligence, and thier sense of humor. They play team sports and understand what being a team player and a good sport means. They are "award winning kids" as one of their teachers put it the day after the show aired, in an effort to console me. Jack was literally winning an award that day for academics. His mom may not be a great speller, but she is committed to their education and happiness 100 percent. So, I will take some of the credit for their big hearts, smart minds, and strong bodies because they are a reflection of my values.

It was no coincidence that you didn't see that side of these rambunctious kids. But it would have run counter to the controlling, mean mother the show would have you believe I am. Don't you find it peculiar that you NEVER saw that side of them? In a whole week of filming - with the mean controlling mom out of the picture? Wouldn't they have cut loose at least a little? Where was it? I mean come ON, it's not natural that an 11 and 8 year old never played. It's so blatant.

The whole premise was overkill if you really think about it (LOL).

So... this could very well be my first and last reply. I've said my piece and I really don't want to spend too much more energy on people who are unkind... altho I will admit, in my heart of hearts... I do wish it might soften peoples hostility towards the vegan villian they think they know. I wish it might soften peoples hostility in general. We either put out positive or negative energy in this life - too much is wasted on the negative.

If you get to read this Barbara, I guess here is what I have to say..

It is true that reality TV shows are bad for 'convenient editing', it is very easy to make one look good or bad - like they say: when one's life is examined under the microscope, it's impossible to look good. And it would be unfair for me to just label you as a bad person or a good person as none of us I believe have that right to judge each other.

Although, as much as that show aimed to portray you as a bad mother and a controlling person, I know that you and your family knows first hand what it was really like and therefore knows how to interpret it. I hope however, that you were able to see some of the moments captured on the show and learn from them. None of us are perfect, but the least we can do is strive to be better.

So.. I wanted to say that Diana was very generous about what she did with your $50,000, she may not have spent some of the money on things YOU would have wanted, but she did leave MOST of it up to you and your family. And unfortunately, you weren't able to give that chance to Diana and her family. Yes you were looking out for their best interests from your perspective - but as much as you thought a jacuzzi was rediculous, don't you think that ecofriendly motors for their boats would have been silly too in their eyes? You thought it was wise for Diana to give you $20k to spend on whatever you'd like, was it wise to leave nothing for the other family to choose to spend on?

And regarding the various comments you made about Louisiana being more behind than California, Diana's clothes were outdated, and implying that Diana and Diego made parenting mistakes - these are all judgemental comments that you don't like us making about you..

I think the take home message from my post is, there is no right or wrong way, there is no right or wrong view, NO ONE can call themselves a better person than the next at the end of the day, we all need to respect and be open to other people's culture and lifestyle, especially if you put yourself on a show that requires you to share your life with someone else. I think Diana was able to do that by cooking vegan, she may be worse in the cut off edits but at least she did that. Were you able to step aside, be open to her family and hold off the preaching about animal rights?

Well I hope at least that the families were able to enjoy their holidays

Judy Li

p.s. did you know that eating soy is not necessary 'great' for everyone? it contains environmental oestrogens (the 'female hormone') which can lower sperm count and therefore reducing fertility rate.

Barbara if you are reading this, Im sure it must hurt - but I wonder if it makes you realise how hard it must have been for Diana listening to the critisisms you made about her and her family, which were cruel and extremely judgmental.
Dosnt it make you sad to see the effort that she put in with your family and knowing that you couldnt make the same connection with hers.
I agree that editing can play a part - but was the scene of you hitting the dog staged? Was the ungratefulness for the $50,000 a fake - your daughter was so happy to get the jaccuzi - she looked at you and she was so proud because she thought you would have liked it and you just slapped her down - she looked afraid of you, dosnt that make you sad?

I can honestly say that your Children are in need of much love and attention after the way you yelled at them on TV. Shame on you. Your friends are just as bad if not worse, They interigated "Diane" something chronic and yet here she was going out of HER way to keep your family or friends or whatever they are happy by cooking them a Vegan Gumbo.. What did YOU do?? Made her family eat your crappy vegetarian burgers. There was No respect there for her OR her family and you even had the Ordasity to put on a stinkin vegan video so that they would see a different side to "Veganism??" you have got to be kidding me!

You need to learn to "Respect" other people's Way's, Value's and Moral's the way they would yours, people are different wether you like it or not not everyone is a vegan.

The way YOU went about it would be enough to put off anyone including other Vegans!

sorry but TV editing can not change a look or a word spoken! ... LOOK at the children's face's.

Well, well, so you guys 'down under' are finally getting to see reality

First, unless you scrupulously analyze the tape you'd never believe how extensive TV editors can manipulate the story so as to end up showing the complete opposite of what actually happened.

We were baffled when we watched our show last December. It was surreal. The next day my son Luke slowed down the tape we recorded and went through it scene by scene to figure out how the editors managed to tinker with what actually happened during our 'trading moms' week to give the TV show that surreal quality we saw. We were dumbfounded.

For example: The boys and I did Yoga with Vickie who had never done Yoga before. She did great and we had a fine old time. On the TV show, however, the editors took five, count them, 1 // 2 // 3 // 4 // 5 separate sound bites to get me to say, "I tried to show // Vickie // how to do it, // I could feel that she wasn't // taking me seriously." I actually said the exact opposite.

Luke documented dozens of examples of where the TV editors sniped, switched, and pasted the original video and audio to fabricate the story they wanted to tell. We had all these details posted on this site for months. As a family, though, we figured it was time to move on and so have removed that material.

Alas, the moral of this is you can't believe anything you hear OR SEE; technology makes faking anything child's play and completely believable. What a curious time to be alive.

As for Barbara? she did come off as mean wether it was edited or not. The fact that she did this: "Barbara also notes that veggie burgers are good because they fight cancer. She better hope that they do, because our very next shot shows Barbara lighting up a cancer stick outside"

and the way her friends or family treated "Diana" was an outrage!

The way she treated "Diana's" family when they turned up early?

The way she expected everyone to change to be like her?

How she treated the family dog? (Mind you I would do that too, but it contradicts the way she is with animals)

The way she snapped at her Children? ?Whatever?s on here, we?re going to choose to be happy,? she says..She sounded well and Truly like a Cry Baby before she found out that she was getting $20k

Mocking her Husband because he wanted to start an "Orchard?" (How can THAT be edited!)

and threatens that if the kids cry, they won?t get any lettuce wraps!

And that LETTER she wrote to Diana about her parenting! OMG thats just a Huge "No No" you do not TELL people how they should be with their children! What the hell made her think that ZZ was depressed? Maybe he was because "SHE" was there!!

Brushing your teeth 5 times? Seriously? Diego should have stepped in and said something to her I know I would have and it wouldnt of been nice..

All in all, Barbara pissed off alot of people around the world.. as you can clearly see. Edited or not Barbara you came out the fool in the end.

Im sorry Carl.. but she is a Nasty piece of work!

Thanks for your time and ta taa for now.

Welcome aboard!

Now, of course, I can only speak from our experience. But, after seeing how cleaverly they fiddled with the raw footage I am all the more tentative and hesitant about what my senses percieve. And being a Taoist, that is saying a lot!

So, we're on next week. Oh, goody . Listen carefully as you watch us drive back from the airport with Vickie. She will ask whether we have "coffee" or "TV". You will hear us say "No". And then I think they show Vickie making a 'face'. The fact is we have about 5 or 6 TVs and coffee from Costco (that means a ton of coffee).

So, right from the get go, the editors are 'guiding' your perception of who the 'Abbotts' are.

Anyway, enjoy the show. And watch and listen carefully and you may notice some of the 'tricks'. I am wondering if noticing the deceptions will make the show more or less enjoyable??? Let us know.

and yes no doubt you will have us "Kiwi's" back on your board again..

What an experience huh? Would you do it again?

All I can say is read this message board take it in and remember...

"The truth shall set you free"

Dont make judgements on others if you cant handle being judged yourself, Im sure you can understand how it isnt really your place to diagnose another persons child with depression and then consequently blame it on a woman you havnt met yet....

Did you think that maybe ZZ just wasnt made to feel comfortable by you? Wether sneaky editing was involved or not - it was plainly obvious that you regard yourself as a person above your host family - maybe he noticed that you were looking down on him from your high horse.....

Welcome to the boards!

Whoo! Finally, we're getting some action on Centertao! I shouldn't get involved though 'cause I'm getting riled up and might say something nasty.

Welcome to the boards!

Cheers!

Get riled up.. who cares??? afterall its just a forum aint it.. We all go to say our piece now we can move on.. just because some disagree with HER doesnt mean they are not allowed an opinion.

Well, if people are laying it on thick for something that didn't happen, I get riled up (since the same thing happened to us). And besides, how on earth do you know the things on the Barb/Diana show actually happened?

Let's just say for the sake of argument (and please don't take this personally at all, 'cause this is just for the sake of argument) that YOU were portrayed on TV as a big chunky abusing spoiled rancourous swab who is lazy and doesn't care about anything except yourself . . . and you just slashed somebody's tires . . . and to top it off, somebody edits some video of you talking so you say "I love the devil" and I say "the truth will set you free." Now that's my opinion (which it is not at all truthful, of course, but let's just say it is) but even knowing that, are you sure you wouldn't feel even a touch of retaliation or "hurtness" for that comment of something you didn't do?

Look at it in perspective of the "victim."

Sorry if I got a bit heavy.

Cheers!

You say:

"Who the hell died and made you "GOD" How dare you go and Judge other people's family morals when your own is to be questioned"

Jo_NZ who made YOU God and who are YOU to judge this Vegan mum?

You go off about her being judgemental, you are a complete hypocrite, all you did was go nuts in disgust at her, and here you are being just as bad. How stupid!

You came off looking like a right idiot there.

It's a TV Programme, grow up! Editing does these things. I'm not saying she was a great person, but she's probably no where near as bad as she's been made out either.

You Say "Have Respect for others and dont be such a BITCH!"

HAHA.. EAT YOUR OWN WORDS!!!!

Booorinnggg!

You've made me speechless. How bloody MEAN of you. I'm embarrassed to think you are a fellow New Zealander, mouthing off like that.

You say:

"Who the hell died and made you "GOD" How dare you go and Judge other people's family morals when your own is to be questioned"

Jo_NZ who made YOU God and who are YOU to judge this Vegan mum?

You go off about her being judgemental, you are a complete hypocrite, all you did was go nuts in disgust at her, and here you are being just as bad. How stupid!

You came off looking like a right idiot there.

It's a TV Programme, grow up! Editing does these things. I'm not saying she was a great person, but she's probably no where near as bad as she's been made out either.

You Say "Have Respect for others and dont be such a BITCH!"

HAHA.. EAT YOUR OWN WORDS!!!!

and besides.. your just as "MOUTHY" & biartchy as me.. fellow Keewee.. Muahahahahaha!

We have a Kiwi tree but I'm not to fond of the fruit 'cause it's so acidic, the fruit burns my tongue when I eat it.

Sven

And forgive me for moving your post, Sven, but I thought it would be more appropriate to place it in the "emotions taking over" and "let's believe what we see on TV" thread, i.e. Jo_NZ's comments. (And besides, this is my web site...)

Carl you are arrogant and scared. You keep those boys under a psychological lock and key because you are afraid of being alone. You discourage them from exploring the world through parental manipulation, and deep down you know this. You've got to let those boys spread their wings.

Sven

Oh shut up you little rancourous coiffured old sow. Why don't you swing the doughnuts out of your ears and knock some sense into that dormant organ you all keep hidden in that rat's maze of yours! And as for wings, the only wings you have are chained down to your little world and to your computer.

How on earth do you know about "deep down" you stump? You're not only shallow but I can't see the bottom from your murkiness.

And "Sven," you're misspelling. It spelled "Seven". Apperantly you are a number and not a name which explains a lot about where you are right now. . . under lock and key. You won't get a bail from me.

By the way, this isn't Carl by the way you shriveled lump of primordial ectoplasm.

Go choke on a cream puff, you fruitcake.

- - - - -
Man, this is fun! I haven't felt this alive since people like Sven made similar posts about us about a half a year ago.

1) Take the attack personally, at face value. This can result in a vigorous defensive reaction as happened with my son. Others folks would shrug it off because it's no big deal for them, while still others would cower and be afraid to respond out of fear. Or, it can turn out to be a blend of some of these.

2) Deeply realize that casting stones, as Sven did, is a symptom of a bullies' inner pain. No happy person 'chooses' to be a bully. A person's actions and attitudes reflect their inner struggle to cope with life. When you know this is so, forgiving becomes automatic, as does empathy for the suffering of the person (Sven in this case). Such compassion may sound blissful and compared to the poison of vengeance it is. Nevertheless, compassion results from bearing and sharing the sorrow of the sufferer, i.e., The sage has no mind of his own. He takes as his own the mind of the people.

Now, which would you choose, (1) ro (2)? I see we have no choice in the matter. It just happens naturally when you stop resisting, which occurs when you stop taking 'it' personally. Then the distinction, the line, between 'I' and 'you', 'us' and 'them', 'this' and 'that' begins to subside. 'I' become 'you', 'we' become 'them', 'this' becomes 'that'. We then know we are in this together. In the face of this mysterious sameness all we can do is surrender in awe, and bear our mutual cross together.

I know in my experience, below anger is always fear.

Carl and his family are one of the coolest and most loving of families.

I know in my experience, below anger is always fear.

Yes, fear plays a huge role. But, so too does our sense of despair and disconnection - an unwanted consequence of civilization. Of course disconnection can evoke a deep sense of fear. Have a nice day!

to be honest I didnt see anything wrong with your episode in fact my sister called me and told me that "she would love to spend a week with you guys" As for your ""Jamming" sessions.. Alot of us Kiwi's enjoy that kind of Music believe it or not.. I was actually singing along with Vickie lastnight while watching it..

All in all (even though it was edited) I enjoyed it..

Have a nice day!

Carl, you hand me a laugh!

The fear of disconnection I think comes from a fear of death. When we were in tribes, being thrown out of the tribe would kill you. I know you are talking about disconnection in a social/spiritual way, but our human nature (at least mine!) reacts similarly. Why else is the number one fear the fear of speaking in public? It's fear of being rejected. I have been thinking that all fears stem from the fear of death.

My original point is that anger is sublimated fear.

The fear of disconnection I think comes from a fear of death.

Well, yes, seeing how's you put it that way.

I suppose I was referring to the trauma we feel, the isolation, the lack of life meaning, which results from our defacto disconnection. We do cry over spilt milk. In addition, as you say, is the fear of spilling yet more milk.

the trauma we feel, the isolation, the lack of life meaning

Yes, there is all that. It is very sad. I especially notice it in WalMart.

I read an article that said that the happiest people in the world are Mexicans followed by Puerto Ricans. That would be surprising to most Americans because these people have the least in material possessions. But when you have everything you need to be comfortable, and survival is no longer an issue, then where is the meaning to your life? It's a lot harder to find.

Lately, a phrase from my Catholic upbringing has been repeating in my head: the veil of tears. And lifting the veil of tears. I never knew what that meant but it sounded cool. Now I know what that is, and I feel like I know the veil and so lifting it is possible. Know what I mean?

it was a weird week at work.

anyone ever see those books of photos where they went all around the world and had families put everything they own in front of their homes? sickening how much americans had, and they didnt look any happier...

why, i've heard of families having as many as 6 or 7 tv's...

...The fear of disconnection I think comes from a fear of death....

It is just one big vicious circle. Adding to the mix is the fact that civilization induces a sense of disconnection in all of us due to its sheer size and scale. This sense then evokes fear and insecurity, which in turn has myriad repercussions. Maybe this lays it out more clearly??? Well, I try.

A Civilization Reflects its Population
A civilization reflects the median of its population's inclinations and characteristics. A population's median age may play a large role in this, i.e., inclinations mature as we age, and thus so should a civilization's. In other word, a population whose median age is 18 would result in a civilization far more 'active' than one whole median age was 80... or 180!

The median of a population is the midpoint on the whole population's bell curve. The bell curve spans from on extreme to the other and everything in-between. Because civilization reflects the mean, or average characteristics of the whole population, it best matches those of us whose nature are closest to the median. Folks on either extreme are not going to be well represented by the particular civilization's paradigm and thus will have the most difficulty fitting in - in connecting.

Inevitably though, the shear scale of modern civilization probably leaves most of us feeling disconnected to some degree. The intimacy of the family and tribe is weaker now than ever. As always, this deficit can not be compensated for by civilization. The haunting sense of disconnection, to whatever degree each of us feels, evokes fear which manifests itself in myriad ways, as Freud noticed as the industrial revolution - industrial civilization - was ramping up. These changes over the past several hundred years have deepened our personal sense of disconnection. This likely reflects the rate of technological innovation, and thus may end up leaving us feeling disconnected at an exponential rate. YIKES!

This underlying sense of disconnection drives us to seek re-connection, as never before, in countless ways: shopping, drugs, travel, work, media, sex, eating, sports, clothes,... and so on. Of course, if you concur with Buddha's Second Noble Truth, you know that none of this stuff re-connects us to the 'whole'. So while Armageddon is unlikely, the next few centuries sure look to be an interesting time for us all.

So today I came back, and later on mama mentioned the CT posts, and I took a looksie. We started talking about how it was probably a mistake to address a TS "family-basher" ? we've said all that needs to be said already. Responding to these (delusional?) posters only adds to the pain that resulted from having our life distorted so viciously.

Mama said that she wanted to edit her postings and take out her responses to the TS watchers, but couldn't figure out how to do it, so I offered to do it for her. (For the record, any registered user can edit their posts; just click the "Edit" button in the upper right corner of your post.)

I turned on my computer (the one blessed with the special "administrative" privileges I was talking about in this post), but had to go do something just then. Anyway, while I was away, Mama figured out how to access the moderator controls on my computer and deleted her posts. However (and this is the issue) she then proceeded to delete several negative posts as well. (Once you delete a post on CenterTao, it's gone forever.)

As I've said before, while I certainly don't enjoy having a bunch of mean-spirited comments on this message board, I believe very strongly in keeping my personal feelings from affecting my decisions as to my moderation of this board. Editing discussions to suit my fancy just seems like lying, not to mention stooping to FOX's level.

To conclude: Mama and I sorted it out, and she realizes it was a mistake, but for this particular instance it's too late to do anything about it. I just wanted to let everyone know that I was very disturbed about this, and it doesn't reflect the principles of this site. It won't happen again.

Sincerely,
Luke

namaste.

DONT BLAME THE EDITING.

Al I can say is Karma. I home you read the boards on the internet. NOBODY likes you. NOBODY ..people have HATE for you.

I have read 1000 messages and not One persona supports you . Even your own communites HATE you.

DONT BLAME THE EDITING.

I blame the editing.

NOBODY likes you.

I like her.

people have HATE for you.

I don't have hate for her.

One persona supports you

I support her and last time I checked, I'm a persona.

I may be different than everybody else but I'm just normal.

If you want to get your point across, the worst place to do it is on a board that is opposite of your opinion. There are plenty of boards out there who bought the Trading Spouses shows hook, line and stinker. You might enjoy those more. Purely a suggestion.

I have only one question and I want an answer so badly. So much in fact..that I'll give you my yahoo account name: spfan1999

Tell me...Did any of that 50k the Gates family recieved go toward a vegan organization, an ecological cause....anything charitable?

And just one more thing...how can you call the show "Trashing Spouses" when that awful, wicked show handed you money just for going to a different place for a couple of weeks. YOU ruined your reputation, not the television show. If you didn't yell at those kids, treat people like they're your lesser, and completely destroy your credibility...you might have some nice things to say about the show.

Dont blame the editing. Your true colors came out perfectly. You are hatefull,rude,selfish and a major hypacrit. Hows that smoking doing? Meat kills but smoking doesn't?

ROFL You're an idiot. Hows that spelling coming along brain child? Hows the personal degrading coming along? Hows treating your family like trash coming along? Threatining your kids with Lettace wraps? Wow ...you have major problems.

Also, hows the animal cruelity coming along? You single handedly became the most hated person on any reality show ever...PERIOD.

now you have to go through life knowing that all of america cringes over you.

many people are unaware that these animals are dependent upon essential amino acids that must be acquired through diet- taurine, arachidonic acid, vitamin A, vitamin b12, Niacin and thiamin- (only a few) of important dietary needs that a cat must have to have a healthy life.

-if you are really concerned for animal rights, you need to have a good understanding of what is really needed for them to be healthy-

--while you are able to make these choices, you need to understand that there are many who arnt able to-- respecting one's choices should be valued- not looked down upon

1) degrade people for eating meat and saying there lifestyle casues cancer while you toke away on your cig? While you have beer/wine in about every shot.

2) Punish the dog the way you did
3) Yell at your kids and supress them form wraps?
4) Cry about not getting anything you wanted formt eh 50k until you found out that you got 20k? What a skank you are.
5) Leave that poor faily 20k for engines they didnt need to benit YOUR CAUSE
6) Give there money away to charity? Did you give any money to charity...NO you selfish idiot.
7) Treat there child with disregard on humilty.

Editing cant bring out the eveil in you...you do that all alone. You wil rot in hell for your actions.

YOu are a scum bag barb and IM goint ot write every vegan organization that you deal with to cut all ties with you.

There is a God, you can read about Him in the Bible. He loves you, and he doesn't care if you eat meat or vegetables your whole life, or only wear organic cotton clothes. You won't go to Hell for smoking, you'll just smell like you've been there. And I promise, you won't go to Hell for eating that alligator, either. I hope your husband is enjoying his orchard and you are all enjoying your Jacuzzi. You have beautiful children and a lovely home.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the light".

Nice way to treat your kid.

You single hanedly made every californiaian despise you. You dont speak for us. You are what we hate.

Your husband has no backbone and needs to go get laid to see what he's missing.

The way you put down that poor family in ever aspect was just plain cruel. And the selfishness you possesed about the 50k was horrible.

You can try to convince yourself the editing was to blame but only Carl belives you. You made a complete fool of yourself and seriously need professional help my dear.
Im so worried about your kids not ZZ...they are going to be on Heroin by there 16th b-day.

Diane treatedyour family with repect and dignity and you spit in her face. I so hopr this comes back to ruin your life you wretched bitch.

But at leat your not a hyprocrite. Smoking. Drinking. Killing spiders. Beating dogs. We all recognize you're a genius whe ZZ can out spell you.

This proves that you dont have to be wealthy to have class. Because you have none, and I pity your soul.

I cannot believe you didn't apologize for even just one of your bad actions. That is very telling. You are in total denial. I am very familar with editing techniques and just like many others here, know for certain there are many examples of your horrible personality that editing could never account for.

You are a self-absorbed hypocritical control freak bitch. I don't know what's wrong with your husband but obviously something is since he's put up with you for 20 years. That's just sad.

As a Californian, you insulted me. You brought out the worst of our great state. You insulted all of us. You damaged the vegan cause. I'm not a vegan and I eat meat all the time and yet I still think what you did for the vegan cause is unforgivable. I am so glad that you aren't in my school district. You are such a hypocrite. I hope they kicked your ass out. I hope no vegan organization or any other organization ever associates with you again. I hope your husbands wakes uo and gets himself and his children away from you before you waste their lives anymore with your toxic overbearing ways. You need help lady.

Instead of falling apart and feeling humilliated, you could step outside of the Ego and be an objective observer of yourself. Learn from it.

All of you, just shut up.

I agree with you Anonymous, but I have a feeling all these postings are from the same 'guest'. You know, one post IS enough for us to get your input. Really.

What a pity that Barbara could not have said this, the same thing she wrote above, about the family on the show. I just saw the show last night and was so sickened by her behavior and the negative, judgemental attitude she displayed towards the other family. So much so, that I did a search on this topic today and ended up here.

No amount of editing, as others have said, could have created the patronizing, snotty, intolerant tone of her voice as she put the other mother down for her clothes being "out of date" (not that Barbara, in that awful crinkle top, looked well dressed!). No amount of editing could have created the fact that she abused the other family's dog in a mean and heartless manner. No amount of editing could have created the awful, nasty tone of voice she used to slilence her own children.

No, Barbara--what I think you didn't like was that we SAW YOU--in spite of the editing. And you were not a nice person at all.

Whats the difference if your registered are not? Nobody gives tehre real personal information, phone numbers, etc...anyways.

Therefore, until further notice, this "discussion" is locked. Any new threads created attacking or (even about) Barbara or any other TS family, or posts made in other threads, may be deleted without warning. I mean it. Go to the FOX boards if you want to vent.

Luke

P.S. I may reopen this discussion later, but I'm going to wait for all these hate-filled emotional posters to leave first.

Luke

I'd have to vote to lock things up if they're getting out of hand. One of the reasons I don't much use this part of the website is I get tired of people ragging on and on. Everyone wants to put their 2 cents in, which is our human nature. But I agree that if you're on an emotional mission to continually trash someone, go do it somewhere else.

Oh yeah, and I've been associated with this group for over 18 years.

Let he who is without reason cast the first stone.

And the second...

And the third....

And so on...

I can understand the frustration many people feel regarding Ms. Gates' appearance on Trading Spouses and there were some things about her behavior as shown that I found disturbing. However, I don't see what is served by meeting her with so much emotional violence.

Ms. Gates does seem like a rather closed person who went into her experience determined to be a teacher when she should have approached it as one approaches anything new--as a student. What she would have found had she been more loving and open was a culture that understands only too well the need to strike out as pioneers and risk liminalisation. What she would have found is a people who accept and encourage a higher degree of individualism than some other parts of the country. The limits and boundaries are pushed much further back to accomodate those differences while keeping time honored traditions alive. I hope she got some glimpse of that. Being a southerner myself, I'll say that we strongly believe everything is fixable and I hope she really does see the mutability of the human spirit that we almost take for granted down here and tries again. Sometimes two is a charm...sometimes three.

Bottom line is, maybe its time to stop being an exclamation point because it only seems to be attracting other exclamation points and offer up something that is more in the lovely curvy spirit of a question mark.

Those who "hate" her based on the TV show, or "send bad vibes" are the ones to feel sorry for. Trust me "vibe sender" -- you're only hurting yourself.

And to Louisiana Lady -- Knowing Barbara as I do (we are not close friends, but did speak a fair bit at church), she DID give Louisiana a chance. There was nothing on earth that I thought would make Barbara try alligator. I remember watching that scene and being so proud of her and sad for her at the same time.

I really hated the way she was portrayed. She is not (nor is any of us) a perfect woman -- but she is one who I would always be happy to call a friend. And I only wish that I could have been one of the friends who gave her a big hug and an understanding smile when all of this happened.

Also remember -- its NOT context -- its EDITING. Cut and splice editing. You cannot quote ANYTHING from this show, because you have no way of knowing if a sentance was completely fabricated from many sentences.

Peace be with you Barbara. (Lisa in CO)

I have just viwed the show and I really do have some questions. This is my first time to actually make a pass word and be involved in a chat room. Point is your performance was enough to get me in here.

I do not think you are a horrible person and I guess nobody will know the truth behind how the editing made you come across, but I was more than shocked at a few things you did that completly went against all the "values" which you so forcfully express the entire episode.

I hope you understand the level of meanness that came out of you towards your daughter. She was so excited to see you when you returned and you said how shocked you were that she missed you. To me that was a large indication that in fact yes you do have some relatonship problems with your daughter. I understand that eight and eleven year olds have energy but come on you took every bit of joy out of them recieving there gifts by stealing back the control, by reminding them about your point system. Not to mention the hatfull way you spoke about your husband, and what he got, and how you would choose the location of the hot tub. Until yougot your money and you had to quickly dry your eyes. Just what so sternly you told your children not to do, or else..

I really could go on with this behavior I can not at all understand from a grown adult woman, but the point of this page is to please reflect on your self. You mentioned you don't need forgivness from anybody else, because you have forgivin yourself??? That could be a problem right there. It's NOT about you,it's who you could have hurt or made feel bad,not just in your show but in your everyday life.

I am not a genius but I can almost assure you that you will not have the control you do over your children and husband forever.

I read an article that said that the happiest people in the world are Mexicans followed by Puerto Ricans. That would be surprising to most Americans because these people have the least in material possessions. But when you have everything you need to be comfortable, and survival is no longer an issue, then where is the meaning to your life? It's a lot harder to find.

Having moved from mainland US to Hawaii, I think people in Hawaii are the happiest! Crime and unemployment are low. There are million dollar houses next to coffee shacks. When you go to a party or get together, everyone is dressed the same, so it is difficult to determine social status (so to speak). They don't even beep their car horns here and people will wave cars into traffic ahead of them!

It is interesting to see how many different cultures and religions coexist here. So far as I have seen, people are more open to differing views.

and a fan on there mentioned Finland has just started a 'big brother' type reality show-with full frontal male nudity-so, Abbott men, if you think your experience on TS was bad, remember it could've been worse...for all of us...

To Cass: Yup, it's a bit of a hoot to see so much hatred discussed on a Tao board! Thanks for the smile.

Regarding Houma, LA and the recent hurricanes, this is the one part of southern LA that emerged without major damage. Not to say they were not hurt by the storms but the damage there was nowhere near that of New Orleans, LA's southern parishes, South TX, or MS, and AL. It is a beautiful area and I encourage everyone to come visit and help get the economy going, whether you check out Houma, NO, or other places in the storms' paths. I have first hand knowledge here - most of my house is out in the Gulf of Mexico somewhere, thanks to Katrina.

Finally, to the Abbott Family.... I don't watch TS often, just happened to catch the Bayou episode. I haven't seen yours but will watch with open mind if I have the chance. However, you might be amused to know that I found this board while looking for further information on Barbara. While browsing through the information here, even among all the hateful posts, I have become interested in learning more about Tao and your lifestyle. So in a very wierd and wacky way, thanks to TS, this is a good thing.

Best Regards from a Refugee

1... More opinions from people who know her and are not involved with the show would present a more believable portrait of the real person Barb is or is not.

2 ... I have become interested in learning more about Tao and your lifestyle. So in a very weird and wacky way, thanks to TS, this is a good thing.
Best Regards from a Refugee

Welcome Msrefugee,

1) Barb came by our house a few months ago for a few days visit. She came on a Sunday so joined in our Taoist meeting. Nothing like a Taoist meeting to 'dig down deep' into ourselves. I found her very likable, curious, flexible and strong. Just a very well balance and decent human being, as I find most are. So, yes, the editing can do a lot to convey an impression that is heavily biased in what ever direction the TV folks wish their story line to follow.

Initially we were bent our of shape by the somewhat distorted story they made out of our lives. Same goes for Barbara. That is because we never expected such 'creative' efforts by the TV editors to make the story go a certain way. We were naive. Now, if they had told us how creative they were going to be, I'm know my wife and kids would have vetoed our involvement from the start. Heck, they were reluctant from the start as it was.

So, obviously they are not inclined to give 'full disclosure', but hey, 'buyer beware'. Realizing the 'big picture', personally anyway, has made the whole experience a real plus as far as I'm concerned. But then I've always been up for an adventure! This brings me to your next point...

2) Your correct, it really was and is a "very weird and wacky good thing".

Because make no mistake, there is an agenda. Which is what I think makes the vegan lady different, and so overwhelmingly disliked: at first it's like god, she's a righteous bitch, isn't she? but then, she's on a reality t.v. show and so you have to acknowledge the possibilty that she's being portrayed not as she actually is, but as Fox or whoever want her to be. But then you hear that letter she wrote Diana and realize that Fox just got really lucky with her. That there's no way even the best editor could have created this character. This is a real lady. And the lady is a bitch.

That vegan family on Trading Spouses! I hear ya! I don't know if I've ever hated anyone I don't know as much as I hated that vegan woman.

Hi Sharon,

Welcome, and thanks for your post. It exemplifies one of the difficulties we face in having this big brain of ours. We so easily believe in what we think to the exclusion of knowing, yet thinking we do not know. Remember, you merely watched an episode on TV which aired a carefully edited and rearranged fraction of a filmed reality to heighten the drama - you were hoodwinked. Like so many of us these days, your response, is based on an interpretation (here TV) and thus mostly devoid of real personal experience. You 'hate' the idea; this intense emotion (hate) you feel exemplifies Buddha's observation that life is suffering. I can only say that throwing stones at others may feel good at the moment, but in the long run never elevates the pain. And, in my experience anyway, may actually increase it. That is why one follows the way.

Hi Carl, I'll be watching your family TS episode tonight.

(1)... is that you're a great dad, maybe over protective but at the end of the day it's all looooove.

(2)...She could've apologized and hugged him, no wonder Zz looked untouched when she was stroking his face and telling him that she's going to miss him. ...

(3)...I guess you defend barbara as a victim to the media & editing,

Hi Sharon,

(1) Well, after you see our families' second episode you may hate me too, especially if you believe what 'your lying eyes and ears tell you'... The part about being overprotective is especially ironic in that most who know me would say the exact opposite - feeling I should be more protective.

(2) Your comment here conveys to me how the show 'manipulated' your emotions. The editing is done to do just that, not only in actual fiction movies, but 'reality' one as well. And, for that matter, probably all presentations. Presentation of anything by anyone always has the agenda of the presenter involved. There is no such thing as neutral. Therefore the sage keeps to the deed that consists in taking no action and practices the teaching that uses no words.

(3) I am really a rather ruthless sob, as many others may attest. So, I'm not actually defending Barbara, as I'm trying to pass along my observations. That is really all I do on this site (mostly anyway). Barbara actually visited us and attended our Sunday Taoist meeting. Spending the day with her, challenging and probing her 'mind set' as I'm given to do, I'm all the more certain of the extent the show was edited. Mind you, she is a strong woman. They use clips of that personality juxtaposed with clips of the other 'actors' to make the story. Of course, the story is believable by everyone, because it is essentially an exaggerated version everyone's story, i.e., we all want our way - what we desire. Our rights and our beliefs are the bunkers in which we dwell as we battle our way through life. A good dramatic story, convincingly edited, tunes right into our own 'baggage'.

It is all kind of ironic in a way. What we see is a reflection of who we are. At least that's how I've come to see it. Which is a reflection of who I am. What does this mean? This is known as mysterious sameness, I suppose.

So, enjoy the show Sharon. Certainly you will enjoy it more if you ignore everything I'm saying. When we were first contacted by Fox to be on Trading Spouses we began watching it, and really enjoyed it - we believed the show was showing it like it was. After we saw how creative they were with our reality, the show wasn't fun to watch anymore. For example, we are driving back from the airport with Vicki and she asked us if we have TV and coffee. You hear us say "no". CLICK Here for the true picture. So you see, as reality, such a show offers interesting insights into family life. But, if it is manipulated heavily to make in 'interesting', it looses the one thing that made it interesting to watch - at least for me.

By the way, where about in Australia are you? I emigrated there in 1963, spent time in Perth and up at Canarvan before wandering off to Asia. I loved it!

Sharon from Sydney, Aus.

sharon bevin:

... But this much is true, she represented people who I have crossed paths with that were mean to me, in the same way - that is the only thing that I can make a connection with and I suppose the very reason why she bothered me.

... This is part of what I was getting at. The show touched a sensitive nerve in you. Emotions tend to amplify perceptions. Thus, you naturally feel the way you do about Barbara, as the edited TV show portrayed her. Sure, there is an element of truth in the show, but the clever editing greatly exaggerated that element to the point of fiction.

The same kind of think happened in our show. Some folks were very upset with my 'brain washing' my kids. Of course, the reality was just opposite. True, I did raise them from birth in a Taoist way. But, that boils down to just the opposite of what you might think 'brain washing' entails, e.g., the best of all 'parents' is but a shadowy presence to his subjects (in the sense of just letting them be themselves).

That 'brain washing' was a projection of Vicki. She just could not understand where we were coming from. Anyway, people who got upset with my 'brain washing' seem, by and large, incapable of 'giving us the benefit of the doubt' - even when confronted with the evidence that son Luke detailed. Anyway, maybe food for thought.

I hope you travel the world again, it'll be good for the soul.

Hi Sharon,

Well, I'm happy you didn't come away from our show feeling irritated! Truly though, I am much better at irritating people in person.

RE: "good for the soul". It sounds to me like Fox's TV editors hoodwinked you a bit on our show as well. Traveling anywhere is actually a symptom of a "soul" lacking contentment. For example, at the most mundane level, I'll sit here as long as I'm content doing so. When I cease feeling content, I'll move on to something and somewhere else (like the toilet maybe) nudged along by another need (I drank a big pot of tea awhile ago ). The same principle holds true for larger scale circumstances as well, e.g., will be content in their abode, and happy in the way they live. .

The 'virtue' of travel has become a big part of the modern cultural myth. Like the 'virtue' of sending your kids off to preschool, it is a rationalization to justify a poverty of spirit (i.e., discontentment) that ironically tends to follow the accumulation of wealth. When all is said and done, there is no disaster greater than not being content. We just can't have our cake and eat it too. Nuts!

sharon bevin:

Travel may not be for you but...

Don't forget, I spent 15 years+ traveling and working abroad. (all the continents, through 100+ countries I reckon, though never counted them up). The 'novelty' wore off!

sharon bevin:

I would have definitely enjoyed your company... Good luck mate.

Yes, we would have some lively interaction! Maybe it is a good thing you are on the other side of the planet. I'm getting to be an old man now and might not be able to take it.

... Likewise, I wish you safe journey.

you're insulting, immature, bigoted (yes you are) and ... disgrace.

it's sad to know most are like you are.

i'm glad i'm a vegetarian, least i know my place in the world.

I fully understand how the editors could have completely misrepresented you on national television and I know how painful that would have been... if it were true. I'm sure there's some truth to the statement -- maybe there were things we didn't see. I know you won't respond but all of your responses and open letters that I've encountered since I've seen this show tonight appear to only distract from the issue at hand: the things we did see.

1. You, the self-righteous, self-proclaimed protector of all animals (except reptiles, which are "not animals" physically abused a dog for everyone to see and used negative reinforcement as your perspective on behavior modification. Was that a computer animation? I didn't know Fox could afford those kinds of special effects!

2. You espouse the natural value for soy and vegetable products. You talk about how garden-burgers actually prevent cancer. I can't say whether that is true or not, but I find it amusing that you smoke. Was that a "fitting in" in LA thing too, or is that a regular occurrence? Do you smoke in the car? I hope you don't throw cigarette butts out the window.

3. You drank cheap beer. Am I being classist (as you were when you called everyone in LA behind the curve, compared to the enlightened Californians)? No. If you were a serious vegan, you would probably know that most beer products are prepared with fish oil/extract in the fermentation and processing plants. Study up.

4. But then, who am I kidding? You ate alligator. Since when do you really care about being a strict vegan? You compromised your morals pretty quickly, huh? Yes, only the cute animals count. That's right. Everyone self-important Californian would know that! Beauty is what counts, right?

5. And as a matter of fact, I pity the fact that you aren't beautiful. At least not on the inside! You have to make up for that with wildly inflated boasts about your intelligence.

I actually have more I want to say, but I am going to stop. I am looking at this post realizing how awful I sound... look what you've turned me into! I'm usually a very nice person. I even live in California so of course I'm nice, and smart, and beautiful! Ugh, I can't stop.

I used to live in DC and animal activists would setup a van on the corner near my house with televisions built into the side of it. They would loop video of animals being fattened, slaughtered, and abused. Yes it was terrible. Of course it was terrible! Was it appropriate for public display? No. Did I resent this video, no more decent than pornography, being shown to random children and passerby? Yes. Please consider your tact.

Look, regarding your innocence, I think that is what irritates me the most. So I will close with this... it is not what we didn't see, it is what we did see: you hit the dog, you put down everyone in LA, you were wicked to the children, and you were a hypocritical shove-it-down-their-throats preacher. These things did not require fancy editing. You said them, you did them, and the proof is in the production.

If I had to choose between your posts which could be 100% fabrications and a half-truth from Fox TV, I choose Fox.

Thank you everyone for allowing me to vent. I have never been so disturbed and angry by anything that I have seen on television in my entire life.

And to all of you "look, this person is too weak to create an account and is hiding behind a 'guest' name" people. There's no point in writing to me however. You either agree or disagree and either way, neither of us will change our opinions on a topic that makes people so emotional. I welcome the discourse regardless however.

-- Sean Parker (beyondfet@yahoo.com)

PS: Carl, I am watching you next. I half expect you to feed illegal narcotics to 2 year olds or kill homeless people. You seem to identify with Barbaric so I guess I am expecting the worst.

Thank you.

And.

Goodnight.

Now, I must return to the basement where my father keeps me and my brother chained up.

Luke

Thank you everyone for allowing me to vent. I have never been so disturbed and angry by anything that I have seen on television in my entire life.

You are most welcome. Better to vent in writing than going out and shoot someone, eh?

Seeing such an angry post is an object lesson in 'symptoms of deeper needs and fears' for anyone interested in pondering such. I always find it fascinating but in the end sad as well. Oh well, just is life. In my view, the judgments we make simply reflect our inner life - who we really are. As brother Jesus put it:

1. Judge not, that ye be not judged.

   For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

   And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

   Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

   Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Of course I'm not sure whether Jesus was looking at our judgments as actually judgments of our own inner self, or that 'God' would judge the judger in the end. Personally, I see no difference (i.e., these two are the same, but diverge in name as they issue forth along with mysterious sameness).

Now, I am thinking it is time to lock this topic. I reckon we've seen enough judgment and hypocrisy to reflect upon. Alas, besides being sad, it also is very humbling, for it is not 'them'. All of us, in the end, are guilty of this in our own private ways. Or course I have an excuse; I'm just a human animal.