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Core Issues of Human Nature: Death, as a Rest from Life

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorCarl
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2005 edited
     # 1

    Death is a Rest from Life
    Seeing death as The End disturbs us more than a little. After all, the survival instinct drives us to live, live, live. Our perceptual discomfort with death must be caused by our mind's ability to imagine a separate 'self' and then to imagine the death of that 'self', each the antithesis of the other. No wonder we are a neurotic species!

    There are other ways to see it though. For example, we have the idea of heaven. This probably works for those who really believe in it. Though, the utter lack of 'evidence' means this belief requires tons of 'faith'.

    Buddha's admonition to believe only what you have verified by personal experience makes 'heaven' a bit out of reach, for me anyway :). On the other hand, I find the idea of death as a rest from life works well. I can verify it - almost. First, nothing feels better to me than going to bed for a full nights rest after a long and hard days work. Death is similar, only instead of a day's work, we're talking about a life's work. The hitch in this metaphor comes when it is time to 'wake up'. But, that is not as big a leap as we might think.

    After the 'rest' which death brings, life goes on. Of course, not the life of 'yesterday's self', but of 'tomorrow's self'. If we see consciousness - pure consciousness - as independent of the personal 'ego' experience, it becomes easy to feel that consciousness continues despite the death of our body and its 'ego'. We experience our personal 'self' through consciousness, not the other way around. Thus, while my 'self' experience differs from a mouse's, our subjective experiences are both illuminated by consciousness - pure and simple.

    This consciousness continues although the personal self ends. This priceless core of who we are is constant and never dies. Some call it our spiritual 'self',... I just call it 'mysterious sameness'. The memory based attachments and instinctive drives do end, not the 'light'. The more we love the 'light', the less we worry about losing the attachments. Prove it, you say?

    Oh no you don't :lol:. That is like asking someone who has never tasted chocolate to prove that it tastes good. So, how can each of us taste this for himself? I can only say that mindfulness seems to put us in touch with the 'light' more deeply. So, enjoy life while it lasts and through mindfulness look forward to the coming rest knowing that the only 'thing' of true value, the 'light', continues. There's no off switch on that baby.

    Personally, I never really enjoyed life until I was able to appreciate death. They are two sides of the same coin. Having a 'problem' with one transfers to the other. That is not to say I didn't have 'fun' and feel pleasure before. But, lurking in the shadows was always that 'stranger' death.

    • CommentAuthorJoe
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2005 edited
     # 2

    Makes me think of "Rest In Peace", with the implication that during life there seems to be a shortage of moments filled with peace. As Carl pointed out about the personal "self", there's too much of my ego-self chasing after desires. Mindfulness helps me step away from that, for a short while, getting in touch with the spiritual self.

    For me, death, even though it's scary to my human ego-self, promises release from the stuggles/suffering that come with having a body, a sense of self. I think that one of the recent chapters questions what worries/problems would I have if I didn't have a body. Which also ties in I believe with the Buddhist points in Dependent Origination.

  3.  # 3

    I was so happy to read Carl's post. People are horrified when I tell them I don't believe in heaven; I guess they'd rather have some validation of their faith. I just can't buy it, though it would be nice. Seems like wishful thinking to me. A family member said that you only get heaven if you believe in heaven; otherwise you get what you believe in, you get what you deserve for your lack of belief. I can't think of anything else in the universe that works that way: customized afterlife, a different one for each customer. Well, at least for those who don't believe in heaven.

    I'm pretty sure that when the body dies, the self dies too and that consciousness continues. I hope this doesn't sound like I have bad self esteem: I will be happy to see this little self, ego, go. It causes so much trouble and suffering, mostly for me, but sometimes for those around me. I don't think it'll be a great loss. I think that at the moment of death, the split second when it happens, this little self will say 'oh, yeah, right...now I remember." It will feel like the going home to end all going homes.

    I just remembered asking Carl how he could say that life and death are the same and now I can say the same thing and mean it. That's a profound change, huh? I love this board! :D

    • CommentAuthorCarl
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2005 edited
     # 4
    Lynn Cornish:

    ... A family member said that you only get heaven if you believe in heaven; otherwise you get what you believe in, you get what you deserve for your lack of belief. I can't think of anything else in the universe that works that way...

    This brings to mind my sense that we are incapable of sincerely considering any evidence (or in this case lack of evidence!) that tends to water down, if not extinguish, those ideals and beliefs (in this case heaven) on which we hold dear. Our emotions bend the ?evidence? to fit the need we feel.

    I think this suggests why the scientific method works as well as it does. First, the only evidence that is acceptable is that which can be ?put on a table?. Equally important though is the fact that most or us don?t have a deep emotional stake in the interpretations of that evidence, nor do we have a stake in how Nature works its wonders. I mean, who cares if light travels at 186,000 or 18,600,000 miles per second? Who cares if the moon is made of atoms on cheese? ... as long as our toasters and toilets work, we're happy :) . Anyone really interested in Nature is usually just curious to find out how fast ?it? goes, what ?it? is made of, what ?it? is doing.

    Oh, and finally, the fact that science insists on having evidence that can be put 'on the table' is why science can never pass through the gateway of the manifold secrets. That journey starts from beneath one's feet - each and every one of us. Which may be why we nab onto beliefs, like heaven, to use as stepping stones on our way to that uncarved block. Yep, somehow it all seems to fit. :wink:

  5.  # 5

    Not that I believe that heaven exists mind - but if it did as far as I'm concerned it'd be one giant library with every book ever written contained therein (and I would of course be able to read them all :!: ). I mentioned this to my dad once - he said that if that's what heaven is I'll find my grandad in the section marked Scottish history; he'd be in the biology section and my mum would either be in English Literature or History or Religious Philosophy (depending on her mood):lol:

    Seriously, I've got no idea what (if anything) will happen other than my physical body dying and my consciousness ceasing to exist as I currently understand it. All that rubbish with mediums 'talking' to the 'dear departed' so that they can tell 'our Rodney' that they're 'happy' - if there is an afterlife, I certainly won't be hurrying back to utter banal platitudes!

    • CommentAuthorAllandnone
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2005 edited
     # 6

    Carl you wrote ..."If we see consciousness - pure consciousness - as independent of the personal 'ego' experience, it becomes easy to feel that consciousness continues despite the death of our body and its 'ego'. " Before I comment I would like to make sure I understand what you mean by "consciousnesss" :?:

    • CommentAuthorCarl
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2005 edited
     # 7
    Allandnone:

    ...I would like to make sure I understand what you mean by "consciousness" :?:

    A perfect question! Which really puts me on the spot :lol:. I have a feeling I'm going to include a lot of links to the Tao Te Ching in this. Oh well, here goes...

    Consciousness is Tao mind. In anticipation of your next question, I'll stumble on...

    Tao mind is our silent experience of awareness which can not be spoken of, or be named. It is that One we 'sense' which is without substance. We 'feel it' as minutely subtle, mysteriously comprehending, and too profound to be known. Utter impartiality is its 'color'. Its passage through the mouth is without flavor. It is the light that shines, not the objects which are illuminated by that light. The objects swing to and fro, and come and go - the light is constant.

    It seems that such straightforward consciousness is more than our emotions can handle. So from birth onward we cut the uncarved block and assemble the broken pieces into beliefs to which we can attach ourselves. But, in doing so, we disconnect ourselves psychologically from the simple silent experience of consciousness in which the rest of creation abides - as far as I can tell anyway.

    We all experience this Tao mind; we just can't muster up enough faith in it alone to sustain us. It is just too indistinct and shadowy. The survival instinct makes it 'impossible' for us to trust that turning back is how the way moves, and that weakness is the means the way employs. It feels empty and this sense of void evokes insecurity, if not fear, in us. So we carve up the nameless uncarved block into little bits and pieces which feel real enough to wrap our thoughts and emotions around. And, bingo we have language, followed by belief.

    Simply put, we look upon that which the light shines as being the light itself, when in truth we are only seeing reflections and shadows of that light. That, by itself, is no problem - all species do the same. But, we fill ourselves up with those images, name them, and lug them around in our mind and emotion, while other species leave them be. We focus on the images rather than follow the light. In a way, we are trapped in our mind. Ironically, our mind's cleverness tends to obfuscate pure consciousness (i.e., Tao mind).

    And that is not a problem either. That's human. However, we might all be a little more content if we knew ourselves more as the 'solitary', 'desolate', and 'hapless' little animals we are :oops:, rather than the 'superior consciousness' ones we imagine ourselves to be 8).

    Yep,... :lol:

    • CommentAuthorAllandnone
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2005 edited
     # 8

    Thank you for your input. Now it is my turn to read your references and get back to you. I think it is going to take me awhile. :lol:

  9.  # 9

    Consciousness is Tao mind

    Does this mean there is one universal mind? I don't think there is but it kind of sounds that way. I think more of Tao mind as a ground for all being, all consciousness, it underlies everything.

    We take consciousness for granted, naturally. It really is a amazing thing, to be conscious, to be aware. Where does it come from?

    • CommentAuthorCarl
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2005 edited
     # 10
    Lynn Cornish:

    Consciousness is Tao mind

    Does this mean there is one universal mind?... It really is a amazing thing, to be conscious, to be aware. Where does it come from?

    I wouldn't want to put too fine a point on it... you know blunt the sharpness. I feel your "it really is amazing" says it all. But, I won't let that stop me. Our search for understanding, vis-a-vis consciousness, or anything else, has its downside. This is how it seems to go down...

    We are born seeing the world as it is. Next we learn to think, and we eventually think we understand how the world is. As we come to understand how the world is, our understanding conforms to how we think the world is, and we cease seeing the world as it is. I guess you could say we dig ourselves into a 'consciousness hole'.

    This was inevitable for a species with such a capable brain / mind as we have. We can't avoid the blindness that acquiring thought and understanding imparts. However, realizing that understanding blinds, helps me put understanding aside - suspend belief - or more accurately suspend the trust I place in it... yep, and most especially what I'm writing here. Then, for brief moments, when I wish, I can again see the world as it is. Here, innocent of knowledge, 'it' is, as you say, "amazing".

    Understanding, in the Taoist sense of the word, is the teaching that uses no words. It is perceptual not conceptual. Thought, with its names, simply constricts and deadens this spontaneous perception - the eyes of a new born babe.

    Yet, we are not so much prisoners locked in our mind (and its beliefs), as prisoners of the unquestioned faith we put in our thoughts and beliefs (scientific, religious, or just gossip). We believe our conceptual interpretations (named and spoken ) of what we sense 'is' is - to quote our last president :) . Our certainty imprisons us. Our understanding blinds us. Therefore...

    Of old he who was well versed in the way
    Was minutely subtle, mysteriously comprehending,
    And too profound to be known.
    It is because he could not be known
    That he can only be given a makeshift description:
    Tentative, as if fording a river in winter,
    Hesitant, as if in fear of his neighbors;
    Formal like a guest;
    Falling apart like thawing ice;
    Thick like the uncarved block;
    Vacant like a valley;
    Murky like muddy water.

    I just had to paste the whole thing in there!

    • CommentAuthorAllandnone
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2005 edited
     # 11

    Well after some thought, heaven forbid, this is how I see it! Consciouness sleeps in the rock, it stirs about in the animal and it comes to life in us! :yy:

  12.  # 12

    We are not so much prisoners locked in our mind (and its beliefs), as prisoners of that unquestioned faith we put in our thoughts

    Wow. I should have that line tatooed on me somewhere. Yes, exactly, it is the unquestioned beliefs, the ones that I'm not even aware that I have, that blind me. We operate under so many assumptions, really basic assumptions, and then we assume and project beliefs on those assumptions until we have created a huge pile of stuff to carry around with us. It's real hard to cut through all that without some guidance and, for me, repeated reminders.

    I think that's why I find the Tao so beautiful. Somewhere I know it's true. It's simple, really, if I don't think about it too much. :o

    Thanks, Allandone. I was wondering about the rocks! Sleeping sounds right. I don't know if I agree about the animals, though. They don't seem that different from us in terms of consciousness; maybe in brain size and self-consciousness. Lucky dogs.

    • CommentAuthorAllandnone
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2005 edited
     # 13

    Lynn you brought up an excellent point about the animals, I should have said, Consciouness sleeps in the rocks, it stirs about in the flowers, and it comes to life in animals. We are nothing more than a over thinking animal.

    I agree with you about the Tao Te Ching, And the more I begin to understand it, that is, stand under it, the more sense it makes. The 4 Noble Truths and 8 Fold Path helps keep me focused and balanced, but the Tao Te Ching allows me to be connected to eveything and nothing. YES , "Lucky DOGS" :wink:

    • CommentAuthorAllandnone
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2005 edited
     # 14

    After giving it some more thought, how about this:

    Where you find Energy, you find Consciouness! :idea:

    • CommentAuthorCarl
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2005 edited
     # 15
    Allandnone:

    ... Where you find Energy, you find Consciousness....

    Or is it where you find stillness, you find consciousness. I see this "energy" aspect of consciousness as more of a symptom - a shadow - of consciousness. I suppose this corresponds to how we 'get' something from nothing. Now, to fill this metaphor to the brim: This shadow is the enlightened reflection of the Dark and Dimly visible. Oooo, spooky, and goofy. It is all the turkey. :)

    • CommentAuthorAllandnone
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2005 edited
     # 16

    Yes Carl I understand where you are coming from. I think our greatest challege will be to get beyond the final "symbol", THE TAO :yy: We can call it what we want, write as much or as little as possible, but we still bump into the back of our own heads. We need to get beyond the final "symbol"

    How do we do that?

    • CommentAuthorCarl
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2005 edited
     # 17
    Allandnone:

    ... but we still bump into the back of our own heads. We need to get beyond the final "symbol".

    How do we do that?

    What a marvelous question!

    A "symbol" only holds as much life meaning as we give to it. So, how do we give the symbol less meaning? The roots of this plunge all the way down into our deepest emotion - trust. The less we trust that the symbol reflects the meaning we give it, the more liberated from that trap in the "back of our own heads".

    So, how do we place less trust in something - anything? To answer that implies another question; why do we place trust in anything in the first place? Mmmmm.... Let us ponder that awhile. I suspect our answer/s to why will help us with how.

    Heck, it seems to work that way with most everything else - at least everything where 'the how to' hasn't evolved over millennia of trial and error. Surely, each of us must find our 'how to' within, and we don't live the thousands of years required for trial and error discovery. I've found being ruthlessly self honest helps me sense why I do what I do. Of course, that begs the questions, "how do we do" ruthless self honesty? Mmmmmm.... Let us ponder that awhile too... :)

  18.  # 18

    I'm not sure I understand the question. Is it how we get past the symbol of the Tao to the Tao itself? In other words, how we drop our preconceptions of what the Tao is (because we always give words some meaning that seems solid to us) and directly experience Taoism?

    • CommentAuthorCarl
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2005 edited
     # 19
    Lynn Cornish:

    ... how we drop our preconceptions of what the Tao is...?

    Maybe we're back to where this thread started (i.e., Death is a Rest from Life).

    It is fear that drives us to trust. Fear of stillness and emptiness impels us to trust in Something. This occurs deep in our emotions, not in the rational part of consciousness. Here we are talking about holding on to our "preconceptions of what the Tao is". 'Holding on' emotionally affirms the self... the sense of..., followed by the illusion of..., See Buddha's Truth #2)

    As far as I can tell, "dropping" this trust requires an emotional willingness to be empty - to die. Arghhh@#$%! Of course, this begs the question, "how do we do" willing to die :?:

  20.  # 20

    Right, it is easy to say "drop it" but in actuality, dropping it would mean dropping everything we hold on to. But isn't that what this web site is all about? Even just imagining dropping gives us an inkling of actually dropping and inklings can grow like seeds.

    Now you will tell me to drop my G_ddamn optimism. No, I say No! (Or maybe you are saying drop your mixed metaphors -- that's easier to say yes to.)

    Through meditation we experience the little deaths that make "willing to die" doable. Don't you think? The Budddha says to only trust your own experience, and that's been mine.

    • CommentAuthorCarl
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2005 edited
     # 21
    Lynn Cornish:

    ...Even just imagining dropping gives us an inkling of actually dropping and inklings can grow like seeds.

    ...Through meditation we experience the little deaths that make "willing to die" doable.

    Yes!

    • CommentAuthorAllandnone
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2005 edited
     # 22

    Arn't we just talking about "non-attachment"?

  23.  # 23

    hmmmmm, yes, I think so. When I think of nonattachment I think more of acceptance of everything as it is; it's more a way of dealing with life. But I think it's the same thing as little deaths.

    I think you will groan if I ask: What about nonattachment to the idea of being nonattached? Maybe Carl can shine his light on this. Hey, Carl, you out there?

    • CommentAuthorCarl
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2005 edited
     # 24
    Lynn Cornish:

    ....What about nonattachment to the idea of being nonattached?

    Exactly!... and truly that applies to all ideas. It is all mush in here (as he points to his head)... :wink:

    The 'situation' we are constantly trying to 'fix' is caused by placing too much trust in what we assume we know. As we say, "to think that one knows will lead to difficulty". Which is why we never get anywhere. Well, that's not entirely true. We do get to go round in circles a lot.

    Of course, as we get older we all realize we don't know what we thought we knew. I call it knowing I don't know. But, as we get older, we die off and the whole thing repeats itself in the following generation.

    Now, is this a problem? No more so than a 'redying' of winter followed by a 'rebirth' of spring. We, like nature, go round and round.

    By the way, have you noticed how often the word know is used in the Tao Te Ching. It is a big deal in Taoism. Curious...

    • CommentAuthorAllandnone
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2005 edited
     # 25

    It seems to me, after this dialogue, words like Change, Attachment, Desire, Duality, Ego , Now and the Tao etc. only point in the direction where we are to go, it is our own experience that will get us there. It is this experience that builds the trust in the "symbol". Our final obstacle is the symbol that we "trust" in. Wow, I hope I pick the correct symbol (ha ha). The bottom line, we have about 30,000 days to live, if we are lucky. Hence, enjoy the journey and do not take any of this stuff to seriously. :wink:

    • CommentAuthorCarl
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2005 edited
     # 26
    Allandnone:

    ... it is our own experience that will get us there. It is this experience that builds the trust in the "symbol". Our final obstacle is the symbol that we "trust" in. Wow,

    ... Hence, enjoy the journey and do not take any of this stuff to seriously.

    1) Ironic, eh? Simply said, you can't shut the doors as long as your hands are holding on to stuff. Only as we drop our trust in stuff, do we become more mysteriously comprehending.

    2) One kink: Only when we take stuff - any stuff - less seriously can we enjoy the journey. And, to reiterate, the more we trust knowledge, the more seriously we'll hold on to our stuff.

    Another irony just occurred to me: In a general kind of way, Christianity preaches to the 'heart' and believes the 'word'. And, Taoism preaches to the 'mind' (e.g., know) and believes the 'heart'. Some like vanilla and some like chocolate. I suppose being 'dark', Taoism is the chocolate. Yummy... :)

    May this explain some of the differences between East and West...?

    "A gene that exerts wide-ranging effects on the brain works harder in people than it does in chimpanzees and other nonhuman primates, a DNA disparity that apparently contributed to the evolution of Homo sapiens, according to a new study. The gene participates in production of prodynorphin, an opiumlike protein that serves as a building block for chemical messengers in the brain known as endorphins. Studies have implicated endorphins in the anticipation and experience of pain, in the formation of intimate emotional bonds with others, and in learning and memory....

    ....Finally, the scientists analyzed DNA from 510 individuals around the globe. They found that many people now living in Europe and eastern Africa possess three copies of the prodynorphin regulatory sequence, whereas people in India and China usually possess two copies of that sequence". ( This excerpt from: Science News, Nov. 26, 2005; Vol. 168, No. 22, DNA Clues to Our Kind: Regulatory gene linked to human evolution.)

    Thus, Western people may be a tad more 'emotional', which would account for why Western people adopted the more emotional religions they did. Mmmm...?

    Oh, and by the way Allandnone, I've assigned my subconscious mind to mull over the perplexing teenager situation you posted. My conscious mind is dumbfounded. I'm waiting for :idea:

    • CommentAuthorAllandnone
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2005 edited
     # 27

    Carl for what it is worth, I just introduced my first Human Dynamics class to our high school Forensic Science students. In this class they learned that Western Culture is more emotional than the Eastern Cultures. The Eastern cultures are more physically centered. Your input about the Genes is very interesting. Because I think our personality dynamics are hardwired and it will take Genetic research to prove it.
    PS: I am looking forward to your suggestions about my teenagers. I will be out of town the next week or so. I hope evryone out in the Tao Land have a wonderful holiday! :lol:

  28.  # 28

    I've absolutely no idea what Tao is! And I'm OK with this - striving after meaning is something that we do as humans so that we can 'draw a line' under things, establish where things/events start and finish, when really there is no start and no finish to be found. Everything flows and interweaves - perhaps we can understand where our role in this started and where, perhaps, it might finish - but we shouldn't be surprised when it turns out that we were wrong. Really we just need to live our lives, taking each day as it comes, resisting the very natural human urge to overplan, overthink. Letting go of our need to 'organise' our lives up to (and sometimes including) our own funerals :wink: - this is what may bring us closer to Tao. Please note I say may, nothing in this life is a given :D

    • CommentAuthorCarl
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2005 edited
     # 29
    Little Dragon:

    1... striving after meaning is something that we do as humans so that we can 'draw a line' under things, establish where things/events start and finish, when...

    2.... we just need to live our lives, taking each day as it comes, resisting the very natural human urge to overplan, overthink.

    Hi, Dragon Lady... :wink:

    I ditto your sentiments. And, I would add a tad...

    (1) I personally find my curiosity about the unknown - and unknowable - is a driving force in my life. Yikes! So, that's a big deal for some of us hominids, eh? I suppose those of us in whom the unknown evokes more 'fear' (insecurity) than curiosity would be driven to "draw a line under things".

    (2) I suspect that the emotional dynamic I point out just above determines how easily we are able to "take each day (and moment) as it comes". Because fears drive us to "overplan, overthink", we are really quite incapable of "resisting" these symptoms of our insecurity. Though we "resist" plenty, we never succeed. Our depth of insecurity determines our approach to life. And our approach determines how our lives play out. Ha! Even that very "resistance" is driven by insecurity.

    Where's Santa Claus when we need him? :lol:

  30.  # 30

    As always, it's trying to find the words to express what I mean that gets between me and others. It's not that I lack 'curiousity' about the unknown/unknowable, but I can accept that I may not 'find out'. As I grow older, it is a matter of determining what causes my insecurities and, establishing that the basis for these insecurities is groundless (in the grand scheme of things) that allows me to be 'curious' in a gentle/relaxed way. I would like to know and endeavour to find out, but am not surprised if the answers raise more questions. :)

    I think it is possible to resist - but only when we have established where our insecurities lie, what caused them and how we address them.

    For the record, Carl, Santa Claus is within you - he is that little bit of magic/imagination/insight that we all possess. However, as adults we tend to lose him/it. :wink:

  31.  # 31

    This little phrase rings true for me: What you resist persists. I also find that investigating the causes of my insecurity doesn't help. What I've noticed is that fear happens when my mind is focused on the future. The only thing that calms my fear is to stay present.

    I learned this when I had a 2 month long episode of double vision, had an MRI on which they 'saw something' and then had to wait a week for a second MRI. That week I learned how to stay in the present. I was fine! My husband was a wreck. (It turned out my brain was okay....physically anyway. If they could see what goes on it there....)

  32.  # 32

    Each to their own Lynn. I find that investigating the causes of my insecurities enables me to face them and realise that they are groundless. My insecurities stand in the way of me truly knowing myself. :)

    For example, during my school years I was very badly bullied, not physically, but psychologically. It took me 15 years after I left school to realise that by thinking back to what happened over and over again, I was trapping myself in my past with the cause of some of my major insecurities. :roll: By yielding up these memories, I was able to preserve myself in a state that was nearer to whole. I have made great strides towards self-knowledge; this is a process that is constantly ongoing. :wink:

  33.  # 33

    Perhaps I am older than you? That may be the difference. I am 57, pushing 60! I've never been this old before that I remember. With age and many years of meditation I can just recognize "oh there's that feeling again", not have to get so much into "the story" around the feeling, and just feel it, breathe some space into it and go on.

    • CommentAuthorCarl
    • CommentTimeNov 4th 2006 edited
     # 34

    Mozart died very young, but he sure had a healthy attitude toward turning back. I came across this quote today which adds another angle to my original post, Death, as a Rest from Life.

    "As death, when we come to consider it closely, is the true goal of our existence, I have formed during the last few years such close relations with this best and truest friend of mankind, that his image is not only no longer terrifying to me, but is indeed very soothing and consoling! And I thank my God for graciously granting me the opportunity of learning that death is the key which unlocks the door to our true happiness." - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, 1756 - 1791

    * * *

    I have also ranted on previously about how 'true learning' is a journey of inner discovery and connection - feelings of mysterious sameness so to speak. (e.g., So, Are We Intelligent Enough to be Enlightened? and Just What Is Learning?) So naturally this other quote of his also resonates with me...

    "Neither a lofty degree of intelligence nor imagination nor both together go to the making of genius. Love, love, love, that is the soul of genius." (Note: "Love" correlates with mysterious sameness.)

    And finally Musicologist Alfred Einstein, the biographer of Mozart said, "Mozart is the greatest composer of all. Beethoven created his music, but the music of Mozart is of such purity and beauty that one feels he merely found it -- that it has always existed as part of the inner beauty of the universe waiting to be revealed."

    That is how I see all knowing . 'It' is there already, we just 'ripen' and return. Hmm,... and 'ripen' brings us right back to death - perfect! :)

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