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Beauty is only skin deep... but ugly goes to the bone.
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Let's correlate this and see what happens:
Beauty is skin deep = male, yang, sun, heat, full, life, mountain, more, strength, movement,...
Ugly is bone deep = female, yin, moon, cold, empty, death, valley, less, weakness, stillness,...
My my, it looks like Taoists are really into the ugly side.
No wonder they say The whole world recognizes the beautiful as the beautiful, yet this is only the ugly; the whole world recognizes the good as the good, yet this is only the bad.
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- CommentAuthorLynn Cornish
- CommentTimeOct 12th 2006 edited
Judge Judy says beauty only lasts a little while, but stupid is forever. That correlates the same way as above (if smart is yang and dumb is yin). Is there a verse in the TTC that supports being stupid?
If so, I can seriously relax!
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Hmm . . . I've heard that saying but I think it was a different translation.
The saying I heard was: Yo Mama's so ugly, when she entered the ugly contest, the judges said, "sorry, no proffesionals!"
Go figure.
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Lynn Cornish:
That correlates the same way as above (if smart is yang and dumb is yin). Is there a verse in the TTC that supports being stupid?
That correlates for me if we are saying:
dumb=slow, stupid, dull, lower,...
smart=quick, clever, bright, higher,...So, how about...
At first glance this appear to talk about what 'he' should do vis-a-vis 'them'. In fact, 'what is good for the goose is good for the gander'. The 'sage' is within each of us. The task of 'governing' our own life is made simpler if we apply this advice to ourselves. For example, 'free from desire' is simply the sage desires not to desire. 'Innocent of knowledge' parallels to know yet to think that one does not know is best, and so on.
Now of course in the natural world, dumb=smart, stupid=clever, or to paraphrase chapter 2, The whole world recognizes the smart as the smart, yet this is only the dumb.... The only true distinction between these words, dumb and smart, is that which takes place in the imagination happening between our ears. The challenge for humanity lies in seeing the world as it is, not as we think it is. The Taoist point of view helps soften the glare.
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Carl:
The challenge for humanity lies in seeing the world as it is, not as we think it is.
I say the world is however I say it is for me. Meaning that whatever I tell myself about the world is how it occurs for me no matter what.
It can be like self-fulfilling prophecy. For instance, I walk past someone and he makes a grimace. I might think he is troubled or I might think that he disapproves of me. How I think the world is will determine my conclusion and my reaction to it. Maybe he really does disapprove of me but I think he is troubled and I show some concern or compassion for his suffering and suddenly I am not such a bad guy in his eyes.
I don't think this is the only force acting on me and the world but it is interesting to consider.
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Topher:
...whatever I tell myself about the world is how it occurs for me no matter what.
Of course, but that doesn't mean that is how the world out there actually is. The point is that "whatever you tell yourself about the world" actually reveals who you are, and perhaps absolutely nothing about the world out there.
Thus, as millennia of human history demonstrates, thinking that one knows will lead to difficulty. I suppose seeing ourselves, our 'beliefs', as simply an arbitrary result of our biology deeply threatens our 'ego'. That's what makes "seeing the world as it is, not as we think it is" such a monumental challenge.
When I say "seeing the world as it is", I mean "see" it as a reflection of who we are, not of what 'it' actually is. When we begin to do that, we can't help but become more tentative, hesitant, murky, etc., which is the last thing we usually want to feel, biologically speaking.
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Carl:
1) simply the sage desires not to desire.
2) 'Innocent of knowledge' parallels to know yet to think that one does not know is best, and so on.1) doesn't "not to desire" create "desire"? Maybe what this is saying is that it is human to desire but to be aware that desire can bring trouble.
2) I like this philosophy. I am an expressive / intuitive anyway, so I say, "the facts are irrelevant". I actually don't think I want to know the truth, if there is one, because it would take all the fun out of life and the discovery of it.
But in my job, knowing is important so I pretend to know what I think they want me to know. I have all the reasonable answers figured out (or how to come up with them). And I am ready with them whenever some fun spoiling schmuck comes around asking. This is how money is made. Customers don't want to hear, "Well, lets try this and see what happens." Unfortunately, I'd be having a lot more fun if that were acceptable.
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Topher:
1) doesn't "not to desire" create "desire"? Maybe what this is saying is that it is human to desire but to be aware that desire can bring trouble.
2) I actually don't think I want to know the truth, if there is one, because it would take all the fun out of life and the discovery of it.
3) But in my job, knowing is important so I pretend to know what I think they want me to know.
1) Straightforward words, seem paradoxical. Desire is 'need' as it emerges from the other side of thought (language). Rooted in instinct, desire will express itself regardless. Directing desire back on itself in this way helps us untangle the knots and soften the glare which language fosters. This results in being more present 'now'.
2) Even if the truth could not be named or spoken of? Even if the discover of 'it' was never something that could be discover-ed? Even if you could only know it spontaneously in the moment of knowing? As soon as it was 'discover-ed' - where you think that you know - it would be lost?
3) Perhaps this is an example of hoodwinking?
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Carl:
1)Even if the truth could not be named or spoken of? Even if the discover of 'it' was never something that could be discover-ed?
2) Even if you could only know it spontaneously in the moment of knowing? As soon as it was 'discover-ed' - where you think that you know - it would be lost?1) I think of the truth that cannot be named is like how hard it is to explain certain things that I have found to work for me in my life.
2) I am not sure that is the truth. I don't think there is a truth as we think of truth as humans, and that is the truth I am not interested in. I still have to deal with it because I was raised with a certain "truth" and it still affects my thinking.
I do think that the world works in a certain way and that we as humans work in a certain way. Learning what that is and how to work with it to have the kind of life I want is my pursuit. Is that the truth? Maybe not for you but for me it is.
I don't expect you to do it my way. There is no "The Way" as far as I can see. There is only a way and a way and a way and... Each way leads you somewhere. You will take the way that you have chosen or the way that you fall into having not chosen.
I am only discussing my way and looking for what I can steal from your way that I can make a part of my way (if it gets me what I want).
I am not trying to convince or be convinced. I am not looking for the "right" way nor the "truth". I am creating "my way" through life. Some of that is picking ground to stand on and also looking where others stand to see how that works and if it might work for me.
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- CommentAuthorLynn Cornish
- CommentTimeNov 8th 2006 edited
I'm not looking to convince or be convinced either and in that light, I offer these thoughts.
I bet everyone on the planet is looking for a way to "work with..." life as it is in order "to have the kind of life I want." All I want is to have what I want and not get what I don't want. Of course, we know that's not gonna happen; people die, bosses fire you, pets run away, your house burns down, there's an earthquake. you marry the wrong person.
The Buddha pinpointed the cause of all this misery: "the cause of suffering is desire." The way to let go of desire is to let go of your concept of self.
But Carl said it all on this site already: http://www.centertao.org/buddha.php
What I understand you saying, Topher, is that through carefully editing your thoughts/lanaguage, you can change how you perceive the world to be and thereby reach contentment. It's similar to the Buddha's 8-fold Path, don't you think?
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