Translation
With desire choosing anything, of doing I see no satisfied end.
All under heaven is divine capacity, nothing can be done to it either.
Doing decays, grasping loses.
In the external world of man, someone leads, someone follows.
Someone snorts, someone blows.
Someone strives, someone wins.
Someone subdues, someone ruins.
Because of this, the wise man leaves the extremes, the luxurious, and the safe behind.
1) support (take; will, prod> with, by means of) desire (wish; about to) take (get; aim at; seek; choose) land under heaven <conj.> and (yet, but) do (act as; be, mean; support) of, I (we) see (catch sight of) his (its, he, it, that; such) no (not) get (obtain, <frml> satisfied) stop (cease; end <frml> thereafter). 将欲取天下而为之，吾见其不得已。(jiāng yù qŭ tiān xià ér wéi zhī, wú jiàn qí bù dé yĭ.)
2) land under heaven god (deity; magical; spirit; mind) implement (utensil; ware; organ; capacity; talent), no (not) approve (can <adv.> but; yet) do (act as; be, mean; support) also (too; as well; either), 天下神器，不可为也，(tiān xià shén qì, bù kĕ wéi yĕ,)
3) do (act as; be, mean; support) (者) be defeated (lose; beat; fail; decay) of, hold (grasp; manage; observe; catch) (者) lose (miss; mishap; defect; mistake) of. 为者败之，执者失之。(wéi zhĕ bài zhī, zhí zhĕ shī zhī.)
4) husband (man) matter (the outside world) perhaps (or; either…or…; > someone) go (be current; prevail; do) perhaps (or; either…or…; > someone) to follow (to comply with / to allow), 夫物或行或随、(fū wù huò xíng huò suí,)
5) perhaps (or; either…or…; > someone) blow through the nose (snort) perhaps (or; either…or…; > someone) blow (puff; boast; brag; break off; break up; fall through), 或歔或吹、(huò xū huò chuī,)
6) perhaps (or; either…or…; > someone) strive (strong; powerful; better_unyielding) perhaps (or; either…or…; > someone) win (beat; gain (profit), 或强或赢、(huò jiàng huò yíng,)
7) perhaps (or; either…or…; > someone) defeat (frustrate; subdue; lower) perhaps (or; either…or…; > someone) destroy (ruin). 或挫或隳。(huò cuò huò huī.)
8) <grm> is (yes <frml> this; that) use (<v> take <p> according to; because of <adj> so as to <conj> and) sage (holy; sacred) human (man; people) go (remove) very (extremely; more than), go (remove) luxurious (extravagant; excessive; inordinate; extravagant), go (remove) safe (peaceful; extreme; most). 是以圣人去甚、去奢、去泰。(shì yĭ shèng rén qù shén, qù shē, qù tài.)
Fourth Pass: Chapter of the Month
(Trump era)
Zoom on YouTube Recordings:
https://youtu.be/nB-cCLUY09g is the link to the Zoom video of this month’s Sunday meeting. The shorter first part of the meeting begins with a chapter reading followed by attendees’ commentary, if any. A little later on begins the longer open discussion part of the meeting when those who wish to discuss how the chapter relates to their personal experience.
Corrections?
None this time.
Reflections:
With desire choosing anything, of doing I see no satisfied end.
All under heaven is divine capacity; nothing must be done either.
With desire choosing anything, of doing I see no satisfied end sums up the whole chapter for me. It immediately reminds me of Buddha’s Second Noble Truth…
The Second Noble Truth is the cause of suffering. The cause of suffering is lust. The surrounding world affects sensation and begets a craving thirst that clamors for immediate satisfaction. The illusion of self originates and manifests itself in a cleaving to things. The desire to live for the enjoyment of self entangles us in the net of sorrows. Pleasures are the bait and the result is pain.
The second line, All under heaven is divine capacity, evokes my sense of actual reality. That is, if I suspend my own desires for what I want and don’t want out of life, all I see is the ultimate eternal perfection of nature’s divine capacity. The fact that nothing must be done either is just another way of seeing the universe as perfect.
The imperfections we see in life, the need for things to be changed or done, is simply a projected manifestation of our personal needs and fears. Yet, we generally rush through life too quickly to notice this personal bias. Our biases end up owning us; we are puppets on our biases strings.
Doing decays, grasping loses.
In the external world of man, someone leads, someone follows.
Someone snorts, someone blows.
Someone strives, someone wins.
Someone subdues, someone ruins.
Once we begin to realize that Doing decays, grasping loses, our faith in pursuing desire’s promise of “lasting happiness” fades. Desire’s empty promise of contentment after we satiate desire becomes obvious. Quenching desire satisfies us only for a moment until the next desire arises, with yet another promise of happiness.
Of course, this is a natural and universal process experienced by all life, at least at the fundamental need level. The simplest version of this is hunger’s drive to keep life nourished. The unique problem for humans is our imagination’s ability to turn this ‘satiate-a-need’ drive into an unbounded ‘satiate-a-desire’ pressure. The human imagination greatly diversifies and intensifies the objects of desire. Note: it helps to consider the source of desire: Need + thinking = Desire and that Fear + thinking = Worry.
All this results in the squirrel-cage cyclic-nature of desire— doing decays and grasping loses. To be fair, civilization is largely responsible for this stressful condition, i.e., In the external world of man, someone leads, someone follows. Someone snorts, someone blows. Someone strives, someone wins. Someone subdues, someone ruins. Conversely, life for our hunter-gatherer ancestors was more limited to the much simpler ‘satiate-a-need’ drive. The snorts, blows, strives, wins and such were still part of ancestral life, just not in the extremes we see in civilized circumstances. (see The Tradeoff)
Because of this, the wise man leaves the extremes, the luxurious, and the safe behind.
This comes back to comprehending the deep natural forces at work in life. Such comprehension, over time, forces the wise man (to) leave the extremes, the luxurious, and the safe behind. “Over time” means that attempting to be wise is at best an idealistic and impossible pursuit of youth. Comprehension, derived from life experience—of what is actually happening in life—makes the wisdom of leaving the extremes unavoidable; it’s not a matter of self-discipline or will, but rather the unavoidable result of knowing.
This deepening comprehension only comes gradually through attending the school of life… for life. Of course, no one can actually get “there”, no matter how long they live. Since we are biological beings and have an imagination, we are inevitably stuck to some degree with this ‘satiate-a-desire’ pressure. Simply put, all of this is a matter of degree. The good news is, the less we’re driven, the less we’re stressed. The bad news is, it takes time for comprehension to arise from within one’s experience. (see We only understand what we already know)
Buddha’s Fourth Noble Truth gets right to the point. Note how the first step on the middle path is ‘Right Comprehension’. Also, note how four of these Truths are related to the mind.
The Fourth Noble Truth is the Middle Path that leads to the cessation of suffering. There is salvation for him whose self disappears before truth, whose will is bent on what he ought to do, whose sole desire is the performance of his duty. He who is wise will enter this path and make an end to suffering. Eight steps on the Middle Path are: *1. Right Comprehension, *2. Right Resolution, 3. Right Speech, 4. Right Action, 5. Right Living, 6. Right Effort, *7. Right Thought, *8. Right State of Peaceful Mind.
Chapter Archive https://youtu.be/20_5T5XtLuE
This is the complete video. It begins with blowing Zen followed by the meeting
Third Pass: Chapter of the Month
Corrections?
None this time.
YouTube Recordings:
https://youtu.be/EUq9LCoG358 is the link to the complete audio recording of our monthly Sunday meeting. For the nicely edited version, go to Kirk Garber’s YouTube channel. The edited version comes in two parts: The first and shorter Commentary part begins with a chapter reading followed by attendees’ commentary, if any. The second and longer Open Discussion part offers attendees’ observations on how the chapter relates to their personal experience.
Reflections:
With desire choosing anything, of doing I see no satisfied end.
This first line brings to mind Buddhist view that because of karma, beings are bound to the ever-turning wheel of rebirth. Only when a person stops believing in the existence of self can he or she become free from karma. First, what is self? Buddha’s 2nd Noble Truth, says in part, “the illusion of self originates and manifests itself in a cleaving to things”. I find this spot on, and easily verified through experience.
Of course, Buddhism goes on to exaggerate and over-complicate the natural ebb and flow hinted at here, and ends up with heavy moral overtones as all ‘isms’ do. Still, there are grains of truth in the karma myth. First consider this summary.
Samsara (Sanskrit, Pali; also samsara) in Buddhism is the beginning-less cycle of repeated birth, mundane existence and dying again. Samsara is considered to be dukkha, unsatisfactory and painful, perpetuated by desire and avidya (ignorance), and the resulting karma. Samsara is perpetuated by karma. Karma or ‘action’ results from an intentional physical or mental act, which causes a future consequence. Finally comes the salvation solution, Buddhist path, as exemplified in the Noble Eightfold Path, shows us the way out of samsara.
One of my main problems with religion is how they always end up ‘criminalizing’ natural consequences, and more specifically, the Bio-Hoodwink. In order to notice the grain of truths in the paragraph above, think of beginning-less cycle as a moment-to-moment ebb and flow, and not as a “repeated birth, mundane existence and dying again”. Then think of the Noble Eightfold Path as a way to mitigate samasara and not as a way out of samsara!
Mitigate, not eliminate, samasara!
Now, back to the first line of this chapter, With desire choosing anything, of doing I see no satisfied end. Desire, and more specifically need, drives all life actions. Desire and worry (a.k.a., need and fear) are the engines that drive survival. These cornerstones of survival are not something to find a “way out of”, but instead manage better. Better management hinges on knowing what were dealing. (See Fear & Need Born in Nothing. )
Dealing with Desire is where Buddha’s 4th Noble Truth shines.
“The Fourth Noble Truth is the Middle Path that leads to the cessation of suffering. There is salvation for him whose self disappears before truth, whose will is bent on what he ought to do, whose sole desire is the performance of his duty. He who is wise will enter this path and make an end to suffering.”
Disregard the exaggerated tone here, e.g., “… leads to the cessation of suffering. Nature does not allow for the “cessation of suffering”. Disregard the allusions to free will in “… he who is wise will enter this path”. One can’t freely choose this path. Rather, when you know there is no other way to manage the problems desire causes, you can’t help but get on board with “this path”. It happens quite naturally when one is truly ready.
Ready Set Go… Slow!
Placing duty over desire can simply come down to not biting off more than you can chew. This means taking life step-by-step, moment-by-moment, snag-by snag. Look for the seamless flow that connects the moments and steps… if you can slow down enough. That amounts to a kind of tai chi throughout the day, in every way. The trap constantly present is the lure of the goal, the light at the end of the tunnel. Once you boldly face the fact that there is no light at the end of the tunnel, you can begin to see the light that is here in the tunnel of your life. Nature hides nothing, only one’s wishful thinking hides nature’s truth.
All under heaven is divine capacity; nothing must be done either.
Doing decays, grasping loses.
If you look around at the world — universe — around you, you’ll notice it is always changing, always creating, always getting its ‘job of creation’ done. Life models that in countless and continuous microcosmic ways. Humanity also models that in our tool making capacity. The common denominator here between all under heaven, humanity’s tools, and the most mundane life forms is the divine capacity to get the job done.
Nothing must be done either become increasingly obvious once you slow down enough to take in all under heaven is getting done, moment by moment. From this vantage point, step back and behold how inevitable doing decays, grasping loses. With that sober stance, every action you take is bound to be much more balanced and in line with nature’s long-term.
Chapter 8 hints at qualities that help make action significantly more balanced. “Hints” is the operative word here. Pondering these carefully over time helps.
When there is a fork in the road, do you take it?
The alternative to allowing nature to take its course comes down to revving up your karmic wheel, flipping you in and out of emotional balance, so to speak. Well… that’s no fun! As chapter 74 cautions, [This] is said to be taking the place of the great craftsman chopping. A man taking the place of the great craftsman chopping rarely never hurts his own hands.
In the external world of man, someone leads, someone follows.
Someone snorts, someone blows.
Someone strives, someone wins.
Someone subdues, someone ruins.
In the external world, the chaotic ebb and flow of life’s struggle to survival snorts, blows,
strives, wins, subdues, ruins, and there is no satisfied end. I could continue on with this litany of life circumstances, e.g., someone lives, someone dies, eats, starves, fights, flees, rests, works, worries, finds peace… In the end, don’t we all pass through all of these conditions?
Because of this, the wise man leaves the extremes, the luxurious, and the safe behind.
If you believe you have free will, you may read this last line as advice, i.e., if I want to be wiser, I should leave the extremes, the luxurious, and the safe behind. From this standpoint, wisdom is the goal and leaving the extremes behind is a way to achieve that goal.
Alas, it is truly the other way around. As you fully and viscerally know that With desire choosing anything, of doing I see no satisfied end, you can’t help but leave the extremes, the luxurious, and the safe behind. Intuitively knowing the opposite extreme is just around the corner lowers you down into the reality chapter 58 describes well,
Where does one go when one leaves the extremes, the luxurious and the sage behind? Chapter 61 gives us a pretty good hint, Of all under heaven, The female normally uses stillness to overcome the male. Using stillness she supports the lower position.
Now, this talk of stillness and supporting the lower position may sound very passive, especially if you still hold on to the promise of free will. Stillness does not mean ceasing to be active and living life! What dies away is the illusion that there exists a satisfied end to my desires, whatever they may be. The tables always turn, and the only way to go with that flow is to leave [all my trust and faith in] the extremes, luxurious, and safe behind. Indeed, knowing that the stillness of the moment is all I can truly ‘have’ makes leaving all that baggage behind unavoidable.
Finally, there is one important caveat
Leaving the extremes behind applies to the ideal of leaving the extremes behind. We are animals, and so need, and its human offspring desire, will always be choosing in the hope of seeing a satisfied end. There is no escaping the Bio-Hoodwink. Thus, to be ruthlessly honest, the last line would better read, Because of this, the wise man [more likely than not] leaves the extremes, the luxurious, and the safe behind.
Second Pass: Work in Progress
Issues:
Line 2: I changed “nothing can be done to it either” to perhaps a more accurate “nothing must be done either”. I am sure there are more elegant ways to say it in English, but as we know, True speech isn’t beautiful, Beautiful speech isn’t true. That’s my story and I am sticking to it! Seriously, having it a little awkward can help nudge the mind’s eye out of its socket box.
The particular sticking point is the dual character word: bùkě (不可) cannot; should not; must not. One problem with ‘should not‘ (and ‘should’) is that it can imply free will, e.g., “You should not be such a lazy person”. On the other hand, it can also simply state a cause and effect scenario, e.g., “You should not wake up late if you want to catch the train on time”. In this case, the ‘nothing must be done either’ is just stating the fact that nothing can be, should be, must be, need be, done either. It is an impossibility… although that doesn’t keep us from trying!
I find that considering other related bùkě words helps broaden the view of this idea of ‘nothing can be done to it either’. Ponder these for example:
bùkěnéng (不可能) impossible
bùkěyánzhuàng (不可言状) beyond expression.
bùkěfēnlí (不可分离) inseparable.
Lines 4: A series of four character phrases begins in the middle of line 4: The first one, 或行或随, roughly and literally translates as: perhaps (or; either…or…; <formal> someone) go (be current; prevail; do) perhaps (or; either…or…; <formal> someone) to follow (to comply with / to allow). So far, so good.
Lines 5-7: I’ll insert these lines (below) from their primary (‘original’) sources to illustrate the difficulty of knowing what’s what… even before considering how the eyes of the beholder sees it. This augments the view that any truth we see comes back to subjective interpretation. There is no way around this subjective filter (although, science comes closest).
The Sources
“The text of the Dao De Jing that appeared with Wang Bi’s (226-249) commentary was widely considered the best copy of Dao De Jing until the discovery of the Mawangdui texts (A & B) in 1973″(1).
Note: the first and third character, 或, (huò: perhaps, or; either…or…; someone) are the same in all three sources, so I’ll omit the “someone” meaning of this character that I use. I’ll just include the character differences—the meat of the matter—to ease comparison.
Mawangdui-A (200 b.c.e.)
4 或行或隨 (go,be current; prevail; do vs. to follow, to comply with / to allow)
5 或炅或□ (bright, sunlight, heat vs. □□□□, i.e., the characters are missing in the original)
6 □□□□
7 或坏或墮 (bad, extreme, harmful vs. to fall, to sink, to degenerate
Mawangdui-B
4 或行或隋 (same as Mawangdui-A)
5 或熱或坐 (to heat; warm up, fervent vs. to sit; to take a seat )
6 或陪或墮 (go with, assist vs. to fall, to sink, to degenerate
Wang Bi (250 c.e.)
4 或行或隨 (same as Mawangdui-A)
5 或歔或吹 (blow through the nose, snort vs. blow, puff, boast, break off, fall through)
6 或強或贏 (stubborn, stiff, strong, able, better vs. win, gain, to profit
7 或挫或隳 (defeat, wear down, dampen, repress vs. to ruin, destroy, overthrow
Notice how the last character of line 5 and all of line 6 of the Mawangdui-A is missing. On the other hand, Mawangdui-B has only 3 lines to begin with. It seems that line 5 of Wang Bi (Someone snorts, someone blows) is not represented in either Mawangdui text. In fact, Line 4 is the only line they all truly share. Anyway…
I translate these four lines using Wang Bi as my primary reference point.
4 Someone leads, someone follows.
5 Someone snorts, someone blows.
6 Someone strives, someone wins.
7 Someone subdues, someone ruins.
Other main translations of Wang Bi put line 5 as:
Some blow hot when others would be blowing cold – Waley;
Some breathe gently and some breathe hard – D.C. Lau;
Other main translations of Mawangdui put line 5 as:
Some are hot, others blow cold – R. G. Henricks;
Some are shiveringly silent, others are all puffed up – V.H. Mair.
The vernacular translation (báihuà fānyì – 白话翻译):
(This brings out the contrasting nature of Lines 4-7 most clearly)
或主动或被动 = initiative vs. passive
或温暖或酷寒 = warm vs. very cold
或强盛或衰亡 = powerful vs. feeble
或胜利或失败 = succeed vs. fail
I suppose my interpretation offers a somewhat more subtle contrast. This subtlety is inherent in the original text, as I see it, not in my interpretation. In any case, the spirit of this chapter speaks to the result when a person leaves the extremes, the extravagant, and the safe behind, which suggests they should convey contrast—’the extremes‘.
At first glance, the leading, striving, subduing, and even snorting would all seem the better way to go. For example: Line 5: When someone blows (boasts, brags, etc) that tells me they feel a need to snort (be real) boasting produces a pseudo real animal snort, if you will. Line 6: When someone wins, they are not striving. The striving precedes the winning. More to the point, striving is daily life; winning is transitory—a fleeting moment. Line 7: Someone ruins is much more violent and ‘yang’ than subdue. Subduing a personality trait in a non-violent, constructive way is known as sublimation. That is channeling the ‘energy / need’ into more desirable ways.
However, The name possible to express runs counter to the constant name. In other words, the beneficial and the harmful, the dangerous and the safe all count as extremes… naturally. It could be that cognition alone is the straw that breaks the camel’s back and leads to unhealthy human extremes, i.e., Realizing I don’t know is better; not knowing this knowing is dis-ease. The utility of the Tao Te Ching’s subtlety and obscurity can be how it helps us to newly become…
Does any of this detail matter?
Does it matter that a line is missing, or that different characters are used? For me, it doesn’t! This all goes to show how what you see hinges upon the over-all ‘taoist’ point of view you bring to life in the first place. As I’ve said before, you can’t understand what you do not already know.
The gist here—the big picture—is the problematic nature of extremes, on either side; the final line brings home the message: Because of this, the wise man leaves the extremes, the extravagant, and the safe behind. I imagine nearly everybody ‘knows’ the danger of the extremes; the debate is only over what is extreme. Simply put, ‘one person’s extreme is another person’s moderation’, making a precise prescription impossible. Rather than offering a ‘should do’ prescription (based on free will / choice), this offers more of a description of nature, i.e., wisdom is simply the consequence of leaving the extremes, extravagance, safety. This is something that eventually happens to us all naturally, as we age.
Commentary:
Lines 5-7 seemed like a good place to address the inherent imprecision in deciphering what is actually so ‘out there’. We all experience this difficulty in contemporary matters, just imagine the murkiness of pinning down realities from way back when. Another difficulty of nailing down what we see ‘out there’ or ‘back then’ also hinges on the eye of each of us, the beholders. Briefly: The ‘in here’ determines what we see ‘out there’ because what we think we see is essentially our interpretation. Self-knowledge and honesty determine that. The deeper you look, the murkier it gets!
With desire choosing anything, of doing I see no satisfied end (or as D.C. Lau put it, 29 Whoever takes the empire and wishes to do anything to it I see will have no respite.) parallels chapter 16’s, Not knowing the constant, rash actions lead to ominous results. Being driven by our desires,we can’t help but take hold of things. Only down the road do we find that our doing decays, grasping loses. Ironically, we ‘correct’ the situation by more doing and grabbing in the name of progress. We have difficulty knowing when to stop and end up out of balance. Yet, we do gradually and continually get it.
Suggested Revision:
With desire choosing anything, of doing I see no satisfied end.
All under heaven is divine talent; nothing must be done either.
Doing decays, grasping loses.
In the external world of man, someone leads, someone follows.
Someone snorts, someone blows.
Someone strives, someone wins.
Someone subdues, someone ruins.
Because of this, the wise man leaves the extremes, the extravagant, and the safe behind.
(1) This is a quote from Hongkyung Kim is Associate Professor of East Asian Thought and Religions at Stony Brook University, State University of New York. He appears to be knowledgeable about the historical particulars. In my view, much focus on particulars can miss the ‘forest’. On the other hand, I definitely value the efforts of rigorous academia to dig up the detail. Without that, I’d have no fodder to shoot off my cannon of a mouth. A balance of both works best, naturally.
Take a look at the introduction to his book here: The Old Master Syncretic Philosophy
First Pass: Chapter of the Week
Being responsibile is more about accepting and conforming to ‘how it is’ rather than action bent on changing ‘how it is’. Chapter 65 speaks to this: Mysterious virtue is profound and far-reaching, But when things turn back it turns back with them. Only then is complete conformity realized.
Any action that flows from this bottom line is less likely cause unintended consequences. This is somewhat like a spiritual ‘buy low, sell high’. ‘Buy low’ is taking the lower position, the ‘sell high’ is the natural benefit that ensues. Life offers two paths, ‘short term pain, long term pleasure’ is the buying low; ‘short term pleasure, long term pain’ is the buy high approach and is always sure to end in immense loss. Of course this also parallels the pay-up-front-now versus buy-on-credit-pay-later. Modern life certainly favors the later, and yet is shocked by the predictable unintended consequences.
The empire is a sacred vessel and nothing should be done to it brings to mind the quantum paradox of Schrödinger’s cat. Think of the empire as like a painting. You must begin and paint something, but then also knowing when to stop. Knowing when to stop is key. I came into existence as ‘carl’ 66 years back. The empire (whether we’re talking about the universe, or my home town’s current era) were ‘painted’ before I was born. I entered the picture and add my dollop of paint to this cosmic canvas. It was perfect as could be when I entered the scene, although in life, act I must. Here is the dilemma: how to act and yet leave well enough alone, or act without acting. Like the Schrödinger’s cat paradox, I act and yet don’t act. How is that possible? It all lies in the eye of the observer. That is why thinking that one knows is so fraught with self-deception.
‘Hence’ or ‘therefore’ often implies an active free will view, i.e., a sense of because of this I intend to do that. My experience is much more passive. The more I see the ebb-and-flow nature of existence, the more tentative and hesitant I become naturally. I can’t help it. It is like playing whack-a-mole. You smash here and it pops up there. Nothing really changes; you just move stuff around. And in moving stuff around you create unintended consequences. The mole pops up where you least expect it. Oops! In youth and ignorance, I wasn’t aware of ‘it’ popping up ‘over there’. I thought taking care of the situation would solve the problem; end of story. Deal with a thing while it is still nothing is best, works best when nothing is truly Nothing.
Is this not why nothing really ever changes in human affairs, despite our dreams to the contrary? Babies born replace those who pass on. The babies must undergo the same ‘learning on the job of life’ that those who pass on underwent to gain whatever sense of how things really versus how they first appear.